Well....Camaro enthusiasts for sure....hardcore performance enthusiasts? Not so much.

IMHO.

Bob

 

Camaro enthusiasts are typically the "affordable performance" crowd. If you are a Chvey guy and want all-out performance, then you look to Corvette.

"Affordable performance" will mean compromises on weight.

 

We all have our opinions. Seems I remember Scott bragging about how an LS1 Camaro SS could get around a road course as quick as (if not quicker) than a Corvette - at a substantially lower price. On the dragstrip, the average Vette could outrun the average Camaro Z28/SS, but not by much.

 

Try saying that to a first gen Camaro owner.

 

Bob got my thoughts on it.

Personally... I'm not worried about road course/auto crossing, so I went cost. I'm a father of two, and they'll be in the car with me alot, so safety is very important to me too... especially after seeing the number a truck did on my van two months ago. Fortunately, my wife was relatively ok, but the van was totalled.

There was a funny line from the VLE back in Michigan... owners will survive a crash, but the sound of the (insert number of) air bags deploying might scare them to death.

 

It was late 2000. SLP brought a 1LE optoined SS to GM for testing. Heinricey beat his lap times he did in a 99 Z51 optioned vette. They couldnt believe it. GM told SLP they couldnt discolse that.

 

The SS had BFG KD tires. The Corvette had stock runflats. Big, big, big difference there.

I also seem to recall that this was a fairly smooth course where the Camaro's live axle would be much less of a handicap.

And finally, a Camaro was a helluva lot closer to a Corvette's weight in 2000 than it'll be in 2010.

 

Yup.

 

I've been hanging around Camaros/Firebirds and the people who own them my whole life. The community is varied.

Some general observations after 30+ years of hanging out:

One segment is very focused on the nuts and bolts of the Camaro. They are very cognizant of the Camaro's heritage and have a very strong opinion on what it should be and what it shouldn't be. As a side note, they usually have the coolest Camaros.

Another segment is GM loyal, but really without any preconceptions of what the Camaro is or should be. The only caveats are that it preferably have RWD, some sort of V8, be relatively cheap and have two doors. All else is negotiable. One thing about this particular group though, is that they have the potential to become very active in the "Camaro lifestyle".

Yet another group has no emotional attachment to the Camaro marque at all. They will buy it, if something about it attracts them to it, ie., performance, styling, image, etc. After that it's on to the next pretty face, be it a Mustang an import or an SUV.

 

That'll never happen again. I don't care if the Camaro runs slicks and the Corvette runs snow tires.

 

I think a lot of people are looking at it this way...if they can't afford one, why would they care what it weighs?

And if they can't sell'em, it won't be around to worry about its weight either...

But....If price is of no concern, then weight would be next on most people's list
Or at least metrics associated with weight, as you listed...especially mpg.

 

I'm not too concerned about weight as long as it can destroy mustangs. Cost is most definately going to be up there, I figure mid 30s for the SS, lower/mid 40s for the Z28.

But really I'd rather GM make a really solid car and have a high price than have them make a not-so-great car and have a low price.

 

A nicely loaded G8 GT comes in at just under $32K here, I hope a N/A V8 LS? Camaro comes in under that.

 

Its all about bang for the buck for me. It seems fairly certain that we are going to get plenty of weight for our dollar. I am not happy at all about this. I dont care who says what but is there any excuse for being so heavy? Seems like a screw up from the get go to me. I know the engineers are doing the best they can with what they have to work with but a Camaro pushing 4000 lbs?
I can easily walk away unlike some because I have no brand loyalty.

Im a cheap skate and want the best value. I will hang tight until the next Mustang comes out. I really have no gripes with my 03 Mustang and it has been a good car overall and it was a bargain to boot. The bang for the buck was very very good.

Maybe its just me but Im not as exited as I once was. This project has drug out for what seems to be forever and the new has already wore off for me. I think GM released a lot of information because they were afraid they might screw this thing up. Just speculation on my part of course. I can appreciate the pressure that people are under but I feel like the car has already been out for a year. It will be a ho hum event for me when they really hit the streets.

 

If a book ever comes out on the development of the 5th gen, I hope that they devote a whole chapter on this weight thing. No spin, no revisionism, just the unvarnished truth.

Even the first time around with the GMX282/284/285 Zeta programs, these cars were going WAY over their target weights. Not by alittle, but by hundreds of pounds. Weight was simply way out of control on that architecture and EVERYONE knew it.

So what happened? What made people think that on the second go around, these Zeta cars would get weight under control? What made Doug Houlihan state that the enthusiasts shouldn't worry because they're sending the car to Jenny Craig? Certainly, at that point and in his position, he must have known, that Camaro's weight was going to be completely out of control.

I mean, were people afraid of what might happen to their carreers if they stood up and said: Wait a minute! This architecture is simply not suited to be a Camaro!

Anyone know the story of when politicians and bureaucrats decided in the late '60's, that the US Navy's new air superiority fighter should be the F-111? Here was an aircraft which was large, heavy, not very manueverable and not all that fast. The pilots working that program, knew that the F-111 was completely unsuited for the role which the politicians had envisioned for it. They knew that this program would be a colossal, expensive, failure and in the end, not have the ability to defend our carrier battle groups from current, let alone, future air threats. They knew it. And they told their superior officers just that. These officers went to congress, and knowingly risked, even ended, their own careers to tell the story. To tell the truth.
IIRC, the final comment by one of the naval officers was, " Congressman, there is nothing that you can do to this aircraft which will turn it into a fighter."


Was there no one at GM with that sort of courage?