Well if the rumors are ture that we've seen on this site recently then there is reason to worry. I have no doubt GM will make the car drive great. But the laws of physics just can't be broken. The weight is always there adding feet to stopping distances, slowing acceleration, draining power from the engine, pushing the car in the opposite direction on turns, and worse now decreasing MPG. If you lower one number on the piece of paper that we'll call a spec sheet, curb weight. All the other numbers on the page will get better.

 

Golly gee, that was a tough one to predict!! Although at the moment, it's about a 60/40 split ..... that's actually not a "killing" IMO?

Really?? Better let Nascar and Formula 1 know ..... those cars certainly don't appear to offer a very "upright" position at all?! I'd say rally is probably the only type of racing with predominantly upright seating positions, but that's also part & parcel with the typical cars (Subarus) that are common in rally.

GM should talk to Nissan about breaking the laws of physics ... apparently it can be done (GT-R). And otherwise, your common-sense approach clearly makes way too much sense ... nobody cares about a few extra pounds these days ... and heavier cars just make for more spectacular crashes!!

 

Except purchase price, and price generally drives sales.

The question GM has to answer is will weight reduction provide enough fuel savings that sales lost on price are regained based on economy.

I'm not an engineer, so I don't know the answer to that one. The guys working on this car seem pretty sharp, so I'm inclined to believe that the answer is no.

 

How true.

After driving a G8 GT with the 19" wheel performance pkg, I can tell you that the laws of physics are alive and kicking on planet Earth. The G8 drives very nice. It's a very nice car. But there is no hiding it's mass. To me, it feels like a 21st century B-body Impala SS. And that's fine.

Fine for the G8, but I had FAR higher expectations for the Camaro.

 

Could be because the last time I checked high 12s is a fast car. This car met my predictions for straight line performance. Feel free to put some numbers down that would be "good enough." If the production car isn't close, you can be assured I will be first in line laughing at the new Camaro.



Welp, sorry Bob. It does suck to be you. The inability to distill one's desires into attainable goals is the hallmark of an unhappy person.

BTW. Weight has next to nothing to do with highway mileage. So enjoy getting the same highway economy out of the 5th gen as you did with the 4th.



Interesting. Again feel free to tell me what you think the poll is asking.

Because I don't see the option for "weight is more important because I know the price is right" that so many posters have generously explained to us.

 

Don't get the idea that GM chose this weight for Camaro. I can tell you as absolute fact, that the target weight for this program was several hundred pounds less that what we're gonna get.

 

What concern me the most is neither weight nor MSRP. My concern is value. Camaro, and Chevrolet for that matter, will stand or fall on value. IOW, will it be percieved as delivering the "goods" for the price.

Most of the concerns about the new Camaro are in the abstract at this point. Assumptions and presumptions.

The nice thing is that the car is coming. The nicer thing is that you don't have to buy it if it doesn't measure up to your personal value equations.

If you are a Camaro fan I suggest you make your decision not solely based on it's price or it's specs. Drive it when it's available to be driven. Look at the specs and the price and then determine if it's a good value.

On this very site, one of the long standing members shared his enthusiasm for a car that apparently delivered dynamic properties he admired. The referenced car was neither light in weight, nor low in price. < Don't read into this that I suggest the car under discussion will be either overweight nor expensive, just suggesting that cars are a "package" not merely pieces. >

Once again, it will be about value.

 

Are you kidding or serious? Wow....

Watch the next televised NASCAR race. Most drivers sit nearly bolt upright. As you've pointed out, so do the WRC drivers. I'll add most of the drivers in every tin top series I can think of at the moment.

Forget F1 and the other open wheel series. They want the driver as low as possible for aero and safety reasons. They also have the advantage of a poured in place "seat" that is unique to each driver.

 

1fd, I betcha..... that you might be referring to my impressions of the M3. Yes, it's pricey, ($56K+). But it's not much more than alot of people have payed for their GT500. And although the M3 not really a lightweight, it's literally a featherweight when used in the context of this particular discussion.

For me personally, the value equation is there for an M3. Even more so for the 135 - talk about bang for your buck! Then why don't I just go buy an M3? Well, I could. But when I look deep down inside, I am a Camaro guy. Maybe more specifically, a Z/28 guy.

Yes, you are correct, we have the freedom to not buy the 5th gen, if it won't meet our expectations. My problem is that I really, really, want a new Camaro. I've planned to buy one or more, for a long, long time and have even re-arranged my new car purchases to accommodate it (or them).

So, when I believe that one very critical component of this value equation, (weight), falls FAR short of my expectations, it disappoints me tremendously. It's a real bummer.

But I hope this new car meets many other people's expectations. I want it to sell well. Maybe that way, I'll get one more shot at a new Camaro which appeals to me.

 

Plus the maintenance on the M3 will kill you. Been there; done that; never again. As great as the M3 was, I'd rather drive a Chevy that's cheaper to drive, maintain and insure.

 

A low 13 second car could be fast too. If I added enough power, I could make a 6000 lb car run high 12s, and thus call it "fast". The GT500 would likely be considered "fast" by most. But its still a bloated pig.

Good for you!

I have no arbitrary performance numbers. For that matter, I have no arbitrarty weight number, either. However, I am still very disappointed in the 3900-ish number that is being tossed about, and in the context of this poll - for me - weight is a bigger concern than cost.

ROFLOL. I find that statement very, very humorous. Thanks for the laugh.

Darnit!

Damn. Where's my gun?

You are correct there - it will make some difference, but not much. But then again, I only mentioned this becaues you brought up MPG with your recommendation for buying a V6 or Miata. I simply stated that I was indeed worried about MPG. If you're not, great!

Shew...this is a tough one! Let me see if I can get this right. Ok, I think the poll is asking if weight concerns me more than cost, or if cost concerns me more than weight.

Do I get a cookie?

In other words, Charlie didn't put enough options in there for you, so we can't make a good choice (even though you obviously made yours)? But why don't you make your own poll asking EXACTLY what you think Charlie should have asked (or really meant to ask) and perhaps we'll indeed see that 80/20 split? Won't mean much, but it will add another weight thread.

Bob

 

I agree with this. I would only suggest that value is defined differently by different people. I would also add that I am likely another person that is in that "1%" group, and thus have fairly specific biases and wants that might not mean much of anything to others.

For example...breaking trannies and rear-ends is easy at a two-ton raceweight. Personal experience.

 

I've seen some school buses that ran pretty good times on the drag strip but I wouldn't want to drive them. Fast isn't everything.

 

I hear you.

My brother-in-law has a Ford F-250 Powerstroke, with the full Gale Banks treatment. It puts out nearly 1,000 ft/lbs of torque. It's very interesting to drive. In fact sometimes even thrilling.

But......

 

Charlie,
I really, really want you to buy one. Not because of me and any benefit I'll realize, but because you do have a passion for them. . . And not because it's a fanboy thing, but rather it's perceived by you as being a value and something you want.

It's coming, and you will decide. So will other folks, regardless of what their feelings are at this point. Until you are in the seat, seeing the Monroney, and digesting the final particulars? It's an abstract excercise.