AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
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From: Orlando, UCF, FL
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
SLP: Firehawk; Used WS6 hood & I think different wheels.
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From: Oakland, California
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
I actually liked the 2nd and 3rd gen Firebirds more than their Camaro stable mates. The early 70's brought us the 455 Super Duty. And who can forget the influence of Burt Reynolds and the Black Trans Am in Smokey and The Bandit? The 3rd gen Firebirds were streamlined and sexy.
By the time the 4th gens rolled around, they became a comical caricature of their historic past. If you look back in Firebird history, Pontiac was actually developing Firebird to be a Corvette challenger, and then wham the big shots a GM decided it should just be a carbon copy of the Camaro. (Yes it was a carbon copy, so don't think it wasn't.) It wasn't until the second gen when the Firebird took flight and became its own musclecar.
I'd actually like to see Firebird return, but as Pontiac's supercar and as a Corvette challenger. Wouldn't that be something?
By the time the 4th gens rolled around, they became a comical caricature of their historic past. If you look back in Firebird history, Pontiac was actually developing Firebird to be a Corvette challenger, and then wham the big shots a GM decided it should just be a carbon copy of the Camaro. (Yes it was a carbon copy, so don't think it wasn't.) It wasn't until the second gen when the Firebird took flight and became its own musclecar.
I'd actually like to see Firebird return, but as Pontiac's supercar and as a Corvette challenger. Wouldn't that be something?
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Nobody would want to see the reintroduction of Firebird more than the genuine GM fan (which most of us are) but I would only want a Firebird introduced if GM would be certain it will complement Camaro and be of benefit to GM's balance sheet. No other factors need to be considered.
FWIW, (as already stated by almost every enthusiast) the Firebird should be more than just a clone of Camaro if it is to succeed.
FWIW, (as already stated by almost every enthusiast) the Firebird should be more than just a clone of Camaro if it is to succeed.
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From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
There is no sense of bringing that car back, these days they will be the same exact car. Leave them with the GTO which has its own distinctivness and stop taking from the Camaro.
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Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by Dwarf Killer
You guys kill me. I'm an original Pontiac fan. I have a 1968 Firebird with the original Pontiac block in it. I think it's a better engine for the street than the SBC because of all the low-end torque. The Firebird was not a Camaro clone. It was faster and handled better off the showroom floor in just about every generation until the Pontiac Motor Division and the Chevrolet Motor Division were amalgamated with Buick and Olds to produce "GM Powertrain Division". The result of that was the SBC becoming the standard GM V8 until the LS1 arrived.
But the point is, Pontiac has always had its own following. Admittedly, I have owned a 1970 Camaro SS. But the Firebird was always the extreme that I aspired to. To assume that I would buy a Camaro because there is no Firebird is a mistake. I might just go for a Mustang instead. The 4th gen WS6, with its aggressive look is commanding higher prices on the resale market for a reason. People just like it better. It outclasses the Mustang and it's more fearsome looking than the Camaro. But it's more expensive, so for most the choice is going to be a Camaro.
The cost of producing a Firebird will be negligible compared to the benefits of having them in the Pontiac dealer showrooms. This way you get twice the dealer coverage to sell what amounts to a similar vehicle.
But the point is, Pontiac has always had its own following. Admittedly, I have owned a 1970 Camaro SS. But the Firebird was always the extreme that I aspired to. To assume that I would buy a Camaro because there is no Firebird is a mistake. I might just go for a Mustang instead. The 4th gen WS6, with its aggressive look is commanding higher prices on the resale market for a reason. People just like it better. It outclasses the Mustang and it's more fearsome looking than the Camaro. But it's more expensive, so for most the choice is going to be a Camaro.
The cost of producing a Firebird will be negligible compared to the benefits of having them in the Pontiac dealer showrooms. This way you get twice the dealer coverage to sell what amounts to a similar vehicle.
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From: Ohio
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by Maximum Bob
Like I posted in a previous thread, would be Firebird buyers won't necessarily switch to Camaro because it's the only pony car in G.M.'s line up. Some will, & some won't. However, there seems to be the perception that all of the lost Firebird sales would fully & automatically transfer to Camaro!
Yup.
Sounds pretty much exactly in line with the failed premise that when GM closed Oldsmobile, all those buyers would transfer to other GM divisions (I mentioned this in the 'Pontiac is gonna be closed thread' )... didn't happen.
Quite possible this won't happen either.
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From: Calgary
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
If its not a Camaro clone I'd be al;l for the retun of the Firebird. And it would probably be in my garage, cause all things considered I'd rather have a
Firebird (Formula).
Nothing against Camaros (I have owned several) but I see them all the time but rarely see a Firebird and I like some exculseivity.
But if it doesn't come back I'll buy the Camaro.
Just reading soem other posts. The Firebird would have to made off the Camaro platform. Its not economicaly feasible to have 2 RWD 4 seater coupes in the same price range.
The could do some different body work (hatch maybe?) and juggle the engines a bit.
Firebird (Formula).
Nothing against Camaros (I have owned several) but I see them all the time but rarely see a Firebird and I like some exculseivity.
But if it doesn't come back I'll buy the Camaro.
Just reading soem other posts. The Firebird would have to made off the Camaro platform. Its not economicaly feasible to have 2 RWD 4 seater coupes in the same price range.
The could do some different body work (hatch maybe?) and juggle the engines a bit.
Last edited by 305fan; Feb 4, 2006 at 10:25 AM.
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From: The Ohio State University
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Here's a slight glimmer of hope for the Firebird, just possibly, and from a more reliable source. From what I can tell, noboby's posted it yet.
http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...024/LATESTNEWS
An interview with GM's LaNeve:
"Does Pontiac need a Firebird?
Any kind of a rear-drive, performance-oriented vehicle is something we should look at for Pontiac. Whether it's a coupe or sedan, that remains to be seen.
Wouldn't it compete with the Chevy Camaro if GM builds that?
I'm not speculating on any of that, but a rear-drive performance-oriented product would be a good fit for Pontiac. "
Not a lot, but maybe there's something there, or maybe not.
http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...024/LATESTNEWS
An interview with GM's LaNeve:
"Does Pontiac need a Firebird?
Any kind of a rear-drive, performance-oriented vehicle is something we should look at for Pontiac. Whether it's a coupe or sedan, that remains to be seen.
Wouldn't it compete with the Chevy Camaro if GM builds that?
I'm not speculating on any of that, but a rear-drive performance-oriented product would be a good fit for Pontiac. "
Not a lot, but maybe there's something there, or maybe not.
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From: U.S.
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
I really don't think so. Camaro is going to be the one chosen to 'represent' all of them..... And I hope it does a good job. I'm happy so far. Just wish it would get here quicker 
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Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
GM says: The Camaro is dead. We say NOOOOO way as we scrounge for every bit of info to prove otherwise.
GM says: The Firebird/TA is dead. We say, Okay.
Even if I were "someone" in the know, I wouldn't give out any hints at all on a Firebird and get the dogs onto a scent. Especially when you consider I threw them a bone on the Camaro.
Plus look what happened with the Camaro, we really ran with that one. Everyone was so distracted I wouldn't be suprised if a Firebird were as far along as the Camaro is right now.
GM says: The Firebird/TA is dead. We say, Okay.
Even if I were "someone" in the know, I wouldn't give out any hints at all on a Firebird and get the dogs onto a scent. Especially when you consider I threw them a bone on the Camaro.
Plus look what happened with the Camaro, we really ran with that one. Everyone was so distracted I wouldn't be suprised if a Firebird were as far along as the Camaro is right now.
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Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
why does everyone hate the camaro. every other forum you read its all challenger challenger challenger. the camaro looks twice as mean. twice as fast and gives a "new" look to the old styling. what did dodge do buy goodmark panels and slapped it on a new chassie thats what. but when a company actually buts some time and effort into a very very nice concept people say its horrible but this completely retro styled challenger looks good....
frustration
frustration
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Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Everyone "says" the mustang is a direct clone of the original, and that they love it.
Now people are bitching that the challenger IS a direct copy.
Wtf? I think people just hated the old challenger or something... There's something deeper.
Now people are bitching that the challenger IS a direct copy.
Wtf? I think people just hated the old challenger or something... There's something deeper.
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Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by MasterEvilAce
Everyone "says" the mustang is a direct clone of the original, and that they love it.
Now people are bitching that the challenger IS a direct copy.
Wtf? I think people just hated the old challenger or something... There's something deeper.
Now people are bitching that the challenger IS a direct copy.
Wtf? I think people just hated the old challenger or something... There's something deeper.
Nah, that couldn't be it. 1969 was such a vintage year......
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Posts: 321
Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by dream '94 Z28
Could it be people are finding out retro isn't the proverbial security blanket that makes you think it's the 'good 'ol days' again and can't handle the cold slap in the face when they open the door to get out?
Nah, that couldn't be it. 1969 was such a vintage year......
Nah, that couldn't be it. 1969 was such a vintage year......
Retro may not be the best, but it sure is better than some of the abominations coming from so-called "modern" styling departments. The one thing about the retro styling is that for the most part they are practical compared to late model styling. The Challenger actually has a trunk and back seat room for adults.
Both the Camaro, Mustang and the Challenger are nice cars. I know some people can't live with that, but if you look deeper you'll find those people aren't happy with anything for long.
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Re: AutoSpies: Source says new Firebird and T/A
Originally Posted by Hoodshaker
Exterior styling-check 4th gens Camaros and Birds shared NO BODY PANELS except the roof.
Also, I have to give mad props to the people on this board who's brains are stuck in 1968. "If the marketing worked 40 years ago, then it's good enough for 2009" seems to be the general rebuttal to everything around here.
Last edited by flowmotion; Feb 8, 2006 at 10:45 PM.