IZ28

A car doesn't need IRS to be a great handler. Third and 4th gens proved that, matter of fact the IROC-Z hit .92g's and GM is claiming .90g's for the SS. There's alot more to it than IRS. If you're talking about overall ride quality I agree, but not turning ability.

Chevymuscle311

The GT500 is a joke. It is slightly faster than an SS ( GT500 0-60 4.5 QM 12.9 and SS 0-60 4.6 QM around 13.2 conservatively) and costs upwards of $50K. The GT500 is for Mustang Fangirls who are willing to pay an extra $20k+ just to say their SUPERCHARGED car is faster than a STOCK Camaro. Congrats , just hope you dont run into a charged Camaro lol. Oh and by the way the GT500 isn't really competiton for the Camaro at $50K, ever heard of a little car called the Corvette. I think those go for around that price. Hmmmm Mustang or Vette. NO BRAINER!!!!

Bob Cosby

Personally, I think the GT500 is an overweight, under-performing, over-priced pig. However, I think your "comparison" to a car that doesn't exist yet is a bit....uh.....N/A.

And speaking of "fangirls"....

Jeez.

Chevymuscle311

The car exists. It may not be for sale to the general public yet, but they have been built.

Bob Cosby

LOL. Ok.

Uncle.

ZZtop

Really! I think it is one of the best bang-for-the-buck cars on the market. I do think it struggles a little in stock form, but with some tires, a tune, and an aftermarket upper control arm that thing is a monster. Throw a pulley and CAI on there and call it a day. There's a solid high 10 to low 11 second daily driver for $45k ($43k MSRP plus $2k in mods).

Bob Cosby

$2k in mods might be a bit optimistic, but when modded, there is no doubt the thing can run. But I just shudder at what I'd do to that tranny powershifting over 2 tons down the track...

Chevymuscle311

Yeah 43K with no options, sales tax, luxury tax or license fees. You arent gettin a GT500 for much less than 50K out the door lets be realistic.

94LightningGal

Wow.............. I think I just time warped into an alternative universe, where the majority of people are 17-20 something "know-it-all" boys.

"No dude.................. my car that I have never driven or tested, is faster, or almost as fast as your more expensive car that you can buy today, and have at the track tonight."

Yea.............. ok.

Other than that, it sounds like a typical Mustang vs Camaro thread. LOL

BTW, when I was down in the valley yesterday, I had to get on my vehicle a bit, to get to a lane that I needed to be in. In the next lane, was a Turbo Porsche, who took this as a challenge............. and felt the need to "blow me away." Why am I telling this story??? Well, it was hilarious, because my vehicle was my 7500lb V10 4x4 F250 CrewCab Lariat. The point??? Just because you think someone is racing you, often they are not. I used to do this all the time when I had a built Mustang. When you have a good exhaust, it can sound like you are getting on it............... when your just taking off from the light. The person who "raced" you, then runs off to tell all his buddies how he just "blew away" that built Mustang. Pathetic, really.

1fastdog

Right you are on that account Mr. Cosby.

Many issues tend to arise when the expectations exceed the specifications...

As I have mentioned here before, I help out some road racing teams that campaign Corvettes. All on my dime and time. Not in any "official" capacity.

I'm not an engineer, I just know a few that are really good, and my knowledge of engines and suspensions came as a direct result of attending "the school of hard knocks" and a post graduate degree from "the school of shut up and listen when someone who knows is speaking"...

I was at Sebring for a Speed World Challenge event. In SWC, aftermarket engine management is legal. The team I was helping was using Motec. Motec services any teams that run their systems. You can get a degree of launch control with nearly any modern ECM.

The murderer of drivetrain parts when they are designed well is not torque as much as it's a "shock" related deal where the values < forces > go through the roof.

Anyway, I was told that the car we had there was going to pick up several positions at launch thanks to the programming. < Road racers usually absolutely suck at launching a car from a dead stop >. The race was a couple of minutes from the start when I found out about the launch programming, so I asked to see the values in the program. " The diff will fail !" was my response... "Sebring is bumpy concrete and the shock that will be induced by the bumpy surface hasn't been accounted for... Tell the driver not to go for it !" was my warning. "It's not a problem" was the response from the crew chief.

Well, the race starts, we pass four cars and roll to a halt past the first turn with an exploded diff... Not a case of the part being poor, but the expectations being too high in the specific instance.

The car has the best sequential race transmission on the planet, and to resolve the issue coming up again only cost $25K to eliminate, by having the same supplier of the trans building a diff that could cover the shock values the car's engine could produce in ANY situation.

This story is not to point out how smart I was, not at all. It's to point out that any modification to increase performance still requires adjustments to expectations on the driver's part. Making a car "faster" usually entails more caution to utilize the performance gain, than less. Otherwise, spend all the necessary money and if you want to leave yourself out of the equation.

I'd like to share a thought of two regarding IRS vs. live "solid" rear axle designs.

You can make a great handler with a solid axle. You are limited when it comes to dealing with uneven surface behavior and adjusting camber and toe are not an option.

Camber and toe adjustment become very important options in dialing a car in for max handling.

Also true is the lock and unlock, clutch plate number and adhesion, and ramp rates of a differential's characteristics affect how a car will turn in, turn, and accelerate out of a corner. That's a whole other deal, as well.

ZZtop

I was not including tires as they are a consumable!

CAI, pulley, tune, and UCA (simplest/cheapest way to fix the wheel hop) should be around $2k.

As for the powershifting. I hear you, but those cars have been taking a beating since 2007 and they are still going strong. NUMEROUS cars in the 10 ans low 11's with VERY little mods. The Camaro guys can say what they want, but that is a badass car!

ZZtop

Obviously you are not getting out the door for 43k (just like you aren't getting out the door in a 1SS for $31k), but you can get out the door for close to 45k. There are people buying under MSRP and even invoice. Plus, there aren't many options on the GT500. The most prevalent is the interior upgrade package and most of them seam to come from the factory with that option.

Camaro350z28

i was actually thinking more along the lines of 12-20 gossiping girls.. but thats my own opinion

2010_5thgen

i have to disagree. i think those cars are junk. overpriced, underpowered. just like mustangs have always been. well the underpowered part at least. the other mustangs are reasonably priced. but the power is terrable. thats fords answer to everything is a supercharger. they cant get more than 350hp out of a stock motor unless they put a blower on it. not as fast as they could or should be and too damn heavy. ss will give it a hell of a run for its money as a stock N/A car. and being about 15-20k less.

ZZtop

You really come off as an idiot. You are a good example of why Camaro guys get a bad reputation.

A car with 500hp is not underpowered. A car that can take repeated drag strip beatings while running 10's and 11's is not junk (hint: this car does not break rearends, even with slicks!).

The GT500 weighs the same as a Camaro SS. While I think they are both too heavy, that is the nature of the beast these days. Name another four seater car with 500hp (or even close) that weighs less???

The Camaro SS will certainly challenge/beat the GT500 in bang for the buck do to its significant price advantage of about $12k when comparing similarly equipped cars ($34k 2SS Camaro vs 2010 GT500 at $46k). Difference is $15k if you simply look at performance for the dollar (1SS vs. GT500) but those are not two comparably equipped cars.