2/98 Issue of Motor Trend:

'96 SS .88G, 66.6 mph
'96 WS6 .88G, 65.2 mph
'98 T/A .87G, 65.0 mph
'95 Firehawk .88G, 65.4 mph
'98 Z28 .83G, 65.9 mph
'98 Formula .83G, 64.9 mph
'97 Honda Civic EX Coupe .75G, 63.7 mph
'96 Honda Civic LX Sedan .77G, 65.1 mph

Looks like you were picking the worst #s for the F-bodies and the best #s for the other cars. So it looks like the F-bodies have pretty decent skidpad #s compared to most of the other cars and a little worse slalom #s than some other cars, but no all that you stated. That makes sense since they weigh more. Physics says the more something weighs the harder it is to change directions fast. There are more skidpad type turns than slalom type turns in the average "twisties" race. At the end of every turn is a straightaway, where the F-body really shines compared to those slow overpriced turds! Roadcourses always have the F-body beating these other cars stock for stock. That is the real test.

 

Steve you are the king of reference

 

Thanks. I have a stack of old mags about 3' high in the next room.

 

And by God hes not afraid to use em.



Steve is your worst nightmare.... a Mustang man with an F body brain.

 

Yeah I like Mustangs, F-bodies and most other fast cars. My good buddy is getting an LS1 soon and I will be racing him, wrenching on it with him, and helping him kick ricer butt!

 

Numbers don't lie. If you can't answer your own question, then I will do it for you. First, you are comparing peak HP, which alone, we all know means very little to 1/4 mile times. The supra is a dyno queen because most of it's TQ is made in very high RPM's due to the turbo. This high RPM TQ takes a while to get to in a race. It may have 700 peak hp, but it has a bad torque curve because of the turbo kicking in. The Z06 has a nice flat torque curve from low to high RPM so it makes use of low RPM and high RPM torque. It's always there. The Supra doesn't get to the good TQ curve soon enough, and even then, it's not very optimized.

Dan

 

Funny how this gets so off topic sometimes.

Great kill. Bet the dinner was extra tasty after savoring the win.

Dan

 

LOL you guys just don't know when to shut up. YOu wanted the proof, I gave it to you. The mitsubishi was the slowest of the bunch, and it outhandled the WS-6, and was 1/10 of a second slower than the camaro.... with a lesser skidpad rating...

the civic by far outhandled them both because of it's very low skidpad but it still hit a 65.7---- identical to the z28, which put .83 to the civic's .80, and over 1 mph faster than the ws-6, which laid down a .84


I picked the most updated times I could find, and if one is biased, they're biased across the board... and those figures you stated were still less than most of the imports.

LOL and furthermore, are you trying to tell me you didn't use your 3' high stack of magazines to find the HIGHEST ratings?

Give it up, we're not driving ferraris, we're driving 25,000 low-tier v-8 sports cars that accelerate quickly, but can't handle as well as other cars.

 

No one is arguing that a z28 can't beat a sport compact in an all out race...

we're talking about handling. Look at the slalom numbers, the z28 is the lowest of the bunch, not even breaking 63mph, everything else is 3-4mph FASTER. Slalom is a great indicator for how well a car handles. The only reason the v-8s have faster lap times (not by much, mind you... a few seconds, with twice as much horsepower---- pretty weak) is because of straightaways.

 

If no one believes me about the straightaways winning the race for the z28... check out this overhead of Willow Springs... the test track from Jthomas' reference.


http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...adcourseLg.gif


It's like 50% straight! of course the z28 won.


And here's the street course...

Not as many straights, but still plenty of room for the z28 to get a decent lead.

http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...s/StreetLg.gif

 

I don't see a question in there anywhere, but thanks for the physics lesson, Bill Nye the Science Guy.

 

Exactly, the heavier something is the harder it makes it to change directions fast... hence----POOR HANDLING. And here you are backing me up with your straightaways comment... Seems like the more you guys argue with me, the more we agree.

The slalom simply states how quickly the car can take turns before it has to brake or lose control. The sport compacts all have a higher number. Skidpad is great, but where's it real-world application? The slalom is really the best indicator, and the z28 is just out of its league with all but a minivan. And frankly, beating a car by 2.5 seconds (average laps) isn't too impressive, considering the differences in horsepower and those 1/2 mile straights. What would happen with NO straightaways?

Comparing the lap times of a z28 vs a toyota celica with that many straightaways is about as unbiased as putting a porsche 911 turbo on the same course against the z28 in question. And the article itself basically says they threw it in for sh*ts & grins.
Sport Compacts handle comparably (and in many cases BETTER) than fbodies... why is it so hard for people to come to grips with?

 

Honestly it was the first mag I came across.

 

Well, fair enough... I did absolutely no research, just did a search on motortrend and picked the most recent articles I could find so we're in the same boat.

 

I have tryed many times to explain this to people with a low IQ , and Dan , I think you are wasting your breath . Good way of putting it though