Kevin V 2002 SS

Mike, you are missing my point. This is my own personal preference and people should use what they want. Your product is a carnauba, silicone, "cleaner" product. I was never satisfied with them in the 30 years that I used them. Even if you gave me a "free life time supply" I wouldn't use it, I'd give it away. Those that like carnauba products are welcome to use them. The Zaino is the only thing that has ever satisfied my high expectations and I have no desire to use anything that I feel does not satisfy me on my car, even if it is free.




------------------
Kevin Villier, 2002 SS #186 - 6M with Hurst and "short-stick", TT, navy blue, chrome SS wheels, Bilstein suspension, SS grill, STB, SLP loudmouth, Direct-Flo lid with Holley filter and Mallory polished MAF ends.

Louisville, KY

MikeLS

barron,

You can call me all kinds of names just because I use Zaino if it makes you feel good. I don't have to prove a damned thing to you or anyone else. I've used carnauba products for years, now I don't. Simple as that. If you and your friend prefer the oily muted look of a carnauba product, fine stay with it. As for me, I'm sticking with Zaino.

I honestly don't know why were're even having this F113 vs Zaino discussion anyway. Carnauba wax and polymer products are in two VERY DIFFERENT classes. Why don't you compare your F113 to the rest of the carnauba stuff out there?? F113 and Zaino are about as closely related as George Bush and Bill Clinton, so why bother comparing them...



------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!

2MCHPSI

First off, there are products out here that use BOTH Carnuba and Polymers combined, so once again you are mis-informing people when saying they are 2 seperate catagories.

This post never intended to be a Formula 113- Zaino match, but YOU and some other "bashers" brought it there. I have never seen a group of people so hell bent on pushing their agenda on a message board.
And please enlighten me further on the Silicone "damage" issue you and a few other Zaino ***** so love to bring up in just about every post. I really want to hear your reasons for claiming this.



[This message has been edited by 2MCHPSI (edited May 22, 2002).]

MICHAEL PRISCO

Its not just carnauba and silicone, and it doesn't have a muted oily look, again you HAVE NOT USED IT, how can you make remarks about a product that you never used. I have many customers that have been buying the products from me and my dealers for years, they will not switch.

The 113 will not seperate, like other products, its very thick and its a liquid. I always show new customer how thick it is by turning a 12 oz or 32 oz bottle upside down with out the cap on, and it will not come out of the bottle unless the bottle is squeezed. There is nothing average about the product. POLYMER is another word for silicone.

My detailer called"BEADX" now that is another subject.

baron4406

This is the funniest thing I've ever read, I now know you've gone off the deep end. "Oily muted look"????? How would a car that had its paint "damaged" by silicone and have an "oily muted look" win car shows?? How would have people raving about how the paint looks? I mean I've been to countless car shows and I see people using EVIL waxes all the time. Now Mike claims not only will silicone destroy your paint, but it will look "oily and muted". Mike has no idea he is doing this but he's making Zaino look VERY bad with his fanatical approach. Zaino is looking like he pays people to bash every product out there. I mean I was actually considering giving Zaion an honest shot-but if he has to have people like Mike LS out there being so arrogant-what is Zaino hiding?? The way to talk up Zaino is to ask people to COMPARE it with another product, what I'm planning on doing now since I have two cars. Zaino's way of doing this is to have people make up lies and mistruths about other products to discourage people from using them. Very shoddy practices, a good product will sell itsself.

jim6221

Formula113 vs. Zaino LOL
Both of you are bashing each other! Do I care, He!! no. The only thing I care about is how my car is going to look after I use the product. First off for formula 113 to do what it does it has to be a great all in one product, but I feel it has too much polishing/cleaning effect to be good for the paint over time. As for the zino the way it is applied with first cleaning polishing and protecting, that only makes since that it would be the best at protecting the paint. And as for the shine, you probably can not tell the difference.

But zaino users (and probably formula113) say that when matched up to a just waxed car megiars gold class looks just a good, the only difference is that zaino last longer and does not have silicon. But I don’t think silicon hurts the paint like you say it does, and the zaino guys say they wax (zaino) the car like once a month. Well if you did that with megiars I guess lasting long does not matter. Therefore waxing you car it for protecting you paint and giving it a nice shine. Well if you do this by using a cleaner, claying, polishing, and then protecting (waxing) the car. It is going to look good when you are done. Then if you keep it wash and wax it like say ever three months. The car that has megiars on it will look just as good as the zaino car.

Lets don’t forget the price differences.


------------------
Jim
94 camaro z28, a4, ROH snyper wheels, eldebrock stb, msd wires, ngk plugs

Cobra R

This is amazing. How can people be so deep into wax?

First off, I will say at least the owner of Formula 113 is on this message board. That means alot, he is out talking to the people that buy his products.

On Corral.net one of the VP's from Mothers is on that board, he was willing to go out to a guys house and look at a problem the guy had with a Mothers product. Guess what, I went out and bought 3 Step Mothers, car never looked this good since I bought it 8 months ago, even after a proffesional detail shop had detailed it.

I have to agree with the point that if Zaino last so long, then why do you have to add coats every month?

I have yet to use the Formula products, and may try them. The paint on my car is far from perfect, because I believe that the previous owner never waxed it. However using the cleaners and a paint scrub did help out a ton. I do like that Zaino has those all serperate. Not sure if Formula does.

But, what does bother me a great deal is this, Every time there is a Zaino bash, challange or such the thread is locked down. With absoulutly no reason for it. There is more hostility in this post then in those. And looking at the Mod. Sig, I am under the impression they are a Zaino dealer.

In this post we have Zaino dealers talking about how poor the Owner of Formula conducts himself. Sorry, but I say 90% of the Zaino dealers are very poor also. They are quick to attack, down grade and basically bash any other product.

However, I have yet to ever see any free sample of Zaino being given out.

I must also say that the Mothers VP on Corral is what sold me, he was very honest, said that Meguirs worked just as well, and was actually a bit cheaper then the mothers top of the line product. He was HONEST and that is was sells people.

Zaino may be the greatest product, but I will never buy it, because the sellers that I have seen on these message boards for the most part are very arrogant. If the product is that good, it will sell it self. With out bashing and locking threads.

steve10358

Mike Prisco, I would like to try some of your product.

steve10358@usa.net

Steve

KevinSS

Threads are not locked for the content of the wax or polish being used, I recommend 3M, Mothers clay bars, all sorts of other products, but what you can not use this forum for is to advertise your product unless you are a supporting vendor, Jason and Chris already know what is going on here and are on top of it. Threads are locked when flaming or so forth gets out of hand, this is a help forum, not a flame forum.

I was a Zaino distributor LONG before I was asked by the previous moderator to take over for him.

[This message has been edited by KevinSS (edited May 22, 2002).]

Cobra R

Explain why the Duragloss is Zaino post got locked? It was not someone trying to sell Zaino, it was not a flame, it was someone asking the question if it was the same and if anyone else had heard the same rumor.

Anyway, that is cool if you want to be a Zaino dealer. I just feel that people get a little carried away with the "Zaino Cult" theme. There are a ton of other products out there that work great. Personally for me, I am going to use what I can go to the local store and buy.

On another note, there seems to be people that "know" everything about every kind of wax. I would like to see a Chemical eng. deg. And some comparisons of the different waxes they talk about. I doubt that we have any here and that most of this is all hear say, from certain company propaganda.

As for harsh abrassives being in whatever wax, if that were the case, then you would see paint color upon the applicator and the towel or what have you that removed the wax.

Also on that same topic, if you are to the point that wax ifs removing paint, its time to stop and have the car repainted.

MikeLS

You are correct in your first statement, there are carnauba/polymer blends, but in the strictest sense pure carnauba and pure polymer formulas are apples and oranges comparisons, end of story. So, I'm not misinforming anyone, it's the truth. Also, your carnauba/polymer blends usually have no better durability than pure carnauba alone. There is a reason for this, you figure it out...

Again, I'm not pushing ANY agenda here. I don't sell, distribute, or make any money from the Zaino company. I simply state the truth about products with my personal opinions as well. It really looks to me like you and many more can't handle the truth...not my problem...do some research first, then we'll talk. It's not my problem if you don't understand how silicones or abrasives can be harmful to paints. I perfectly understand it, because I've done extensive homework on the subject. I'd suggest you and many others do the same before calling me a "liar."...

And, it's funny how we Zaino "bashers" never resort to name calling or other immature bull****, but people like you insist on calling us "*****" "arrogant" or whatever the catch word for the day is. If you wanna namecall, go back to kindergarten...that's where it belongs.


baron,
Plain and simple for you OK, so maybe you don't misunderstand what I say like usual. You take every post of mine and twist it to fit whatever bull**** you can think of next. I've used nearly every major wax and polish product out there, so I know what I'm talking about. I can't help if you can't handle the facts, or don't believe what I have to say... Nothing I have said in the past is a lie, mistruth, or anything false, so quit your personal bashing of me... I've never said one time that carnauba was "evil"...just another case where you want me to look like the bad guy here... So, if you're gonna play by those rules, I'm done, you win. I'm not gonna lower myself to your level to prove anything to you...do your own homework, draw your own conclusions about whatever products you use... It's your car and I could care less what you do to it... In fact, ever since your first post here, you've done nothing but personal bashing towards Ziano and its users... I don't tolerate trash talk and have no respect for it...end of story.

Again, for anyone who can't read, I'm NOT affiliated in any way with the Zaino company. So, honestly, what do I personally have to gain from promoting Zaino... think about it before you guys talk trash...

------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!


[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited May 22, 2002).]

MikeLS

Not exactly correct here. With most all clearcoat paints, you will NOT see any paint pigment on the applicator from using abrasives, unless they are extremely harsh. You are referring to single stage paints. These types will leave pigment on an app even with a very light abrasive, big difference. I've used light rubbing compounds over clear coat many times and never a trace of paint rubbed off...but, you can bet it wore away some of the clear.

But, even the lightest abrasives are wearing away the clear coat and causing minor marring, this is why you shouldn't use them if you don't have to...

------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!



[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited May 22, 2002).]

Rockster

"As for harsh abrassives being in whatever wax, if that were the case, then you would see paint color upon the applicator and the towel or what have you that removed the wax."

Most cars have clearcoats nowadays so you will not see any paint(color) until you have gone through the clearcoat. Depending on how often you use a product with abrasives/harsh cleaners this could take a few years.

Instead of arguing about which products contain abrasives or not you should do your own testing. Get some non-clearcoated panels from a junkyard, polish them up using compounds or polishes that will remove oxidized paint, Dawn wash and then start your tests.
Apply and remove the products being tested in a normal manner using soft cotton towels. Be sure to use applicators/cotton towels that are NOT the same color of your paint for obvious reasons.
If the product contains abrasives the applicators/towels will get paint color in them. Since you have already removed the oxidized paint layer, you will see that the product removes even good paint and will be removing clearcoat layer even though you can't see it.
And if you decide to do the above test you might also test for durability of the product by leaving the panel(s) outdoors and test for beading and shine by observation. Do this every few weeks for a a few months to determine which product(s) keep their shine and beading ability.

The bottom line is to do your own testing and make an educated decision about which product to use.



[This message has been edited by Rockster (edited May 22, 2002).]

97BlackT\A

Well said Rockster!

This is not something that can be settled w/o doing your own testing! What looks good to one may not look good to others. What seems like a lot of work to one may be a piece of cake to another.
No matter what anyone says about any product it is their opinion. Period. It is based on their experience, standards, and personal needs.
Now if someone wants to spend the money to do a well rounded scientific study, then we will have results based on measurable FACTS.

Opinions can't be measured, so let it go!

As for MikeLS, I think he is top notch. Despite my feelings towards Zaino he has been nothing but very friendly and helpful and I have a lot of respect for him. Ticks me off to see him get flak for things he has NOT done.

------------------
'97 Trans Am
13.84 @ 98 1.91 60ft on street tires
'88 Camaro V6
www.TeamNWFbody.org

baron4406

Mike LS I'm going to do just what you suggested, my Camaro is getting the Z5 treatment , and when I get the Formula 113 I'll use it on my Talon. To be fair I'm gonna throw a coat of Z2 on it to be fair. Then I'll give my honest assesment.