Formula 113 kicks arse!
05-24-2002, 08:11 AM
#61
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MikeLS:
Again, I know what I know from years of experience, and yeah, I know a lot. So, how many types of waxes and polishes have you used before F113, just curious?
Like I said, I have facts to back up what I say, as well as years of experience, sorry you don't want to beleive any of it...sure I offer some opinions, but most of what I say IS factual. Like I said before, sounds like a few people need to do some serious research before they criticize what others have to say. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just because I don't use a product does NOT mean I don't know anything about it. Will F113 make your car shine? Yeah, I bet it will, but at what expense... An this is what I'M hare for, later...
</font>
Again, I know what I know from years of experience, and yeah, I know a lot. So, how many types of waxes and polishes have you used before F113, just curious?
Like I said, I have facts to back up what I say, as well as years of experience, sorry you don't want to beleive any of it...sure I offer some opinions, but most of what I say IS factual. Like I said before, sounds like a few people need to do some serious research before they criticize what others have to say. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just because I don't use a product does NOT mean I don't know anything about it. Will F113 make your car shine? Yeah, I bet it will, but at what expense... An this is what I'M hare for, later...
</font>
Sounds a bit too superficial to me.
05-24-2002, 08:18 AM
#62
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Annapolis Md. USA
Posts: 754
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Like I said, I have facts to back up what I say, as well as years of experience</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">sounds like a few people need to do some serious research before they criticize what others have to say</font>
I worked as a mastertech at a GM dealer for 7 years working along side a body manager of 30 years who would laugh till no end on your FACTUAL comments. Have you ever done paint work?? Prepped a car?? Painted a car??I have. Have you worked with guys with over 100 years of experience when painting these cars?? I have. Or maybe your a weekend warrior who polishes cars in driveways..
You can give your opinion on a product or generalizations all damn day long, but when you claim them as fact, you are claiming your own ignorance.
05-24-2002, 09:14 AM
#63
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: YONKERS NY USA
Posts: 34
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MikeLS:
Again, I know what I know from years of experience, and yeah, I know a lot. So, how many types of waxes and polishes have you used before F113, just curious?
Like I said, I have facts to back up what I say, as well as years of experience, sorry you don't want to beleive any of it...sure I offer some opinions, but most of what I say IS factual. Like I said before, sounds like a few people need to do some serious research before they criticize what others have to say. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just because I don't use a product does NOT mean I don't know anything about it. Will F113 make your car shine? Yeah, I bet it will, but at what expense... An this is what I'M hare for, later...
</font>
Again, I know what I know from years of experience, and yeah, I know a lot. So, how many types of waxes and polishes have you used before F113, just curious?
Like I said, I have facts to back up what I say, as well as years of experience, sorry you don't want to beleive any of it...sure I offer some opinions, but most of what I say IS factual. Like I said before, sounds like a few people need to do some serious research before they criticize what others have to say. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but just because I don't use a product does NOT mean I don't know anything about it. Will F113 make your car shine? Yeah, I bet it will, but at what expense... An this is what I'M hare for, later...
</font>
Mikels, I don't know what your problem is, but you shouldn't pass judgement on a product you know nothing about. If silicone was bad for your car then why does every other company use it, do you think they want law suits on there hands?
All you guys are trying to do is stop me from selling by misinforming people about other products on the market. Sure zaino is good stuff but HE IS NOT THE ONLY PLAYER ON THE BLOCK. The more you zaino guys try and put me down the more I want to get the word out.
This is getting rediculous, all you guys will manage to do is get the thread locked, and THAT IS WHAT YOUR TRYING TO DO.
I will be at the car show in Churchville, MD over this holiday weekend. If anyone would like to come by and see for yourself, please do, also I have the samples wiht me.
Come on down MIKE and bring all your products and we will let the crowd decide.
05-24-2002, 10:09 AM
#64
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This is getting rediculous, all you guys will manage to do is get the thread locked, and THAT IS WHAT YOUR TRYING TO DO</font>
MikeLS, if you want to debate this further, we can take it to e-mail. No need to get this thread locked over this annoying debate.
Later
Kevin
05-24-2002, 12:58 PM
#65
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 14
Has anybody posted what is actually in Zaino, or is it unknown? If it is unknown, it would be tough to truly compare products based on this discussion of ingredients and their pros and cons. It might be posted, but I missed it.
I understand what some of you are saying about not noticing certain brands hurting your paint right away because of the clear coat, but how does that explain users that have been applying it for years but their cars still win competitions. Maybe it is my ignorance, do they use a non-clearcoat type of paint? <B>This is not an attack on the Zaino users</B>, but if long time users of the Formula113 haven't destroyed their paint after many years of use, how is that justified? Again, paint that doesn't have a clearcoat?
I think for the average guy like me, who justs wants to wax his car once in a while, but have it look as good as it can due to my efforts, I would be interested in seeing some type of chart or matrix, if any of the experts are willing to put the time in. Obviously, a lot of people are interested in this thread.
Something that maybe shows: Name of product (not just Zaino and Formula113, but other major products), ingredients (if known), pros and cons of ingredients, price per ounce (since they might not be sold in the same sizes), time to do application, time per month to maintain application, longevity of application, cost per initial application (maybe for all needed products), monthly cost to maintain finish (again, for all needed products).
Unfortunately, there might have to be more than one chart, since there are different products like cleaners, waxes, final finish(?) products. It sounds like a fair amount of work, I know, but some of you know this off of the top of your head. I would be willing to do the spreadsheet templates, if others are willing to fill them in.
I know for me, to be able to see it in one concise location, instead of having to wade through all of the posts (this one and others) would help me, and most likely, many others, make up our minds what to try next (and most likely stick with if the results are good).
I agree that the best idea is to try them all, but realistically, that would take a long time, a lot of effort and many dollars. I typically like to rely on the opions of others, but this issue is so clouded with opinions, it is tough to see the facts. I also agrre with Kevin when he says stick with what you like or know, but there are a lot of claims flying around here, and I would just like to know to some degree, what is truth and what isn't, but weeding out as much opinion as possible.
What would be interesting to see, is a chart from each "side" to be able to compare the responses. It might start a whole other argument though, which is not my intention.
As I read through my post, I see that I'm asking a lot, or maybe it is pie-in-the-sky stuff.
Maybe consumer reports has already done something like this? If so (or not), do any of you know of a third party tester that has done Formula113 and Zaino among other products?
Not to get a freebee out of this, but I would like to take you up on your sample offer, MICHAEL PRISCO and try it on my Blazer to see how it works on an older paint job.
Sorry for the long post.
Mike
------------------
94 Z28 A4 Stock (for now)
I understand what some of you are saying about not noticing certain brands hurting your paint right away because of the clear coat, but how does that explain users that have been applying it for years but their cars still win competitions. Maybe it is my ignorance, do they use a non-clearcoat type of paint? <B>This is not an attack on the Zaino users</B>, but if long time users of the Formula113 haven't destroyed their paint after many years of use, how is that justified? Again, paint that doesn't have a clearcoat?
I think for the average guy like me, who justs wants to wax his car once in a while, but have it look as good as it can due to my efforts, I would be interested in seeing some type of chart or matrix, if any of the experts are willing to put the time in. Obviously, a lot of people are interested in this thread.
Something that maybe shows: Name of product (not just Zaino and Formula113, but other major products), ingredients (if known), pros and cons of ingredients, price per ounce (since they might not be sold in the same sizes), time to do application, time per month to maintain application, longevity of application, cost per initial application (maybe for all needed products), monthly cost to maintain finish (again, for all needed products).
Unfortunately, there might have to be more than one chart, since there are different products like cleaners, waxes, final finish(?) products. It sounds like a fair amount of work, I know, but some of you know this off of the top of your head. I would be willing to do the spreadsheet templates, if others are willing to fill them in.
I know for me, to be able to see it in one concise location, instead of having to wade through all of the posts (this one and others) would help me, and most likely, many others, make up our minds what to try next (and most likely stick with if the results are good).
I agree that the best idea is to try them all, but realistically, that would take a long time, a lot of effort and many dollars. I typically like to rely on the opions of others, but this issue is so clouded with opinions, it is tough to see the facts. I also agrre with Kevin when he says stick with what you like or know, but there are a lot of claims flying around here, and I would just like to know to some degree, what is truth and what isn't, but weeding out as much opinion as possible.
What would be interesting to see, is a chart from each "side" to be able to compare the responses. It might start a whole other argument though, which is not my intention.
As I read through my post, I see that I'm asking a lot, or maybe it is pie-in-the-sky stuff.
Maybe consumer reports has already done something like this? If so (or not), do any of you know of a third party tester that has done Formula113 and Zaino among other products?
Not to get a freebee out of this, but I would like to take you up on your sample offer, MICHAEL PRISCO and try it on my Blazer to see how it works on an older paint job.
Sorry for the long post
.Mike
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94 Z28 A4 Stock (for now)
05-24-2002, 01:20 PM
#66
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 19
Hopefully http://www.thewaxtest.org will soon be getting their results out soon. Their evaluations and testing may answer some of your questions.
05-24-2002, 01:58 PM
#67
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 14
Thanks Rockster,
Do you happen to have the results from their first test?
They say that they are doing their second test, but I don't see any reference to the first test.
I wonder if they want to charge a few bucks to mail out the results. Since they are claiming to be non-profit, that means that they must be generating income from it.
Thanks again!
Mike
Do you happen to have the results from their first test?
They say that they are doing their second test, but I don't see any reference to the first test.
I wonder if they want to charge a few bucks to mail out the results. Since they are claiming to be non-profit, that means that they must be generating income from it.
Thanks again!
Mike
05-24-2002, 02:01 PM
#68
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Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 38
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rockster:
Hopefully http://www.thewaxtest.org will soon be getting their results out soon. Their evaluations and testing may answer some of your questions. </font>
Hopefully http://www.thewaxtest.org will soon be getting their results out soon. Their evaluations and testing may answer some of your questions. </font>
Put 'em side-by-side.
Find out:
-which shines the best after application?
-which shines the best a month later?
-which preserves/protects the car's paint and finish best 5 years from now
-which is easier to use
-which costs less
Then we'll have an answer. If anyone has something of THAT nature to add to the thread, post it. Otherwise, it seems like a lot of people are just going pee-pee into the wind.
05-24-2002, 05:52 PM
#69
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,564
OK, here's my bottom line on all this. I've used many carnauba waxes over the years, I certainly know their pros, cons, and what's involved in the formulas. Why on Earth would I want to go BACK to using carnauba when it is less durable, loaded with solvents, oils, and silicones, when I can use other products that contain NONE of that crap?? I simply can't justify WHY I'd actually want to start using a carnauba wax again. Give me a good reason if you guys are the carnauba KINGS here? I'm not referring to just comparing to Zaino here either. There are other great polymer products I'd use if I had no Zaino, like Klasse or Liquid Glass for instance, even though LG is silicone based. Plain and simple, carnauba is old school, I don't care what brand you want to talk about. IMO there are MUCH BETTER products that do a hell of a job protecting and lasting over long periods, none of which are carnauba based. So, I'm still a bit confused why F113 and Zaino are even being compared. 
Why not compare it to Pinnacle, or P21S, or Blitz or Meguiar's where it really belongs?? F113 and Zaino or any true polymer have NOTHING in common, other than they are in the same industry. Big deal, SUV makers and Ferrari is in the same industry as well, but are nothing alike and perform VERY VERY differently. PERIOD. Why bother...
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*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!
[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited May 24, 2002).]
Why not compare it to Pinnacle, or P21S, or Blitz or Meguiar's where it really belongs?? F113 and Zaino or any true polymer have NOTHING in common, other than they are in the same industry. Big deal, SUV makers and Ferrari is in the same industry as well, but are nothing alike and perform VERY VERY differently. PERIOD. Why bother...------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!
[This message has been edited by MikeLS (edited May 24, 2002).]
05-26-2002, 07:50 PM
#70
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: YONKERS NY USA
Posts: 34
Just returned from Maryland. The guy who won the best detailing award has been a customer of mine for more then 5 years, its a Nova.
I will be posting the pictures by Tuesday on my website. His brother has a black Grand National and he was another major award at the different show.
113 and zaino are 2 different in the same industry but when using these products we are all looking for the same thing, A GREAT LOOKING CAR. This is why we are comparing both.
I will be posting the pictures by Tuesday on my website. His brother has a black Grand National and he was another major award at the different show.
113 and zaino are 2 different in the same industry but when using these products we are all looking for the same thing, A GREAT LOOKING CAR. This is why we are comparing both.
05-26-2002, 08:14 PM
#72
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,564
Great, Congratulations!
------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!
------------------
*Mike's 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniv.*
Dark Red Metallic (ext.) / Flame Red (int.)
Flowmaster Crossflow, K&N, 20% 3M Panther Black Tint
JL Audio 3 10", PPI PC2100, Kenwood eXcelon KRC-953H/U, Kenwood / Pioneer speakers
Show Car Shine by ZAINO! - Special Thanks to Sal Z!
05-27-2002, 01:03 PM
#73
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 121
Zaino is the obvious winner here. It is safer, more durable, and great protection for a daily driver. I don't even know how Zaino and F113 are even being compared. They are not in the same class. If you care about your paint finish and the fact that Zaino is optically perect (99.9%) then use Zaino. If you just want your car to shine and you do NOT care about the damage that is being caused or care about any long-term effects then go ahead and enjoy your F113.
"Zaino is a true and total paint protectant system. One application of Zaino Z2 or Z5 will outlast & outprotect any product in the industry and provides total protection, far exceeding any wax or polish product."
"Zaino is a true and total paint protectant system. One application of Zaino Z2 or Z5 will outlast & outprotect any product in the industry and provides total protection, far exceeding any wax or polish product."
05-27-2002, 05:14 PM
#74
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: YONKERS NY USA
Posts: 34
FORMULA113 WILL NOT DAMAGE YOUR PAINT OVER TIME I HAVE THE CARS TO PROVE IT. ANOTHER SHOT TAKEN AT FORMULA113 BY A ZAINO USER.
Don't believe what he says it is not true. I have many customer's that have been using f113 for many years and keep winning shows.
Maybe I should call on them to post there results.
Here we go again.
Don't believe what he says it is not true. I have many customer's that have been using f113 for many years and keep winning shows.
Maybe I should call on them to post there results.
Here we go again.
05-27-2002, 05:24 PM
#75
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: YONKERS NY USA
Posts: 34
If the zaino is so good , then why do so many people have problems with it. Like the guy who has the streaks. I have never heard anything other then the 113 made my car look unreal.
And never a return in over 7 years, all word of mouth.
Stop the bull crap.
And never a return in over 7 years, all word of mouth.
Stop the bull crap.