you should look at the classes stock eliminator and super stock first. they will show you the most innovations in suspension for stock chassis cars. and guess what, they pop wheelies, BIG ones most of them. there is no simple energy conversion factor when calculating all that, its very complicated and complex with many different factors involved. they only way it will settle this, is to prove it, well next year you can side with payam and have his stiff roadhandling suspension with his 10.5 tire and we'll see what happens, and ill run my setup and we'll see what happens. thats the only way to settle this.

 

holy crap stock eliminator is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

ya and super stock is even more bling

 

jason and andy

what part of this dont u understand

if i cant spin my tires without any suspension travel, then WHY WOULD I NEED IT ? if it hooks and books without moving the front a bit .. then why should i waste energy bringing up all that weight ?

why doesnt don's car bounce around going down the track ? cuz its got STIFF AS HELL suspension

i was at harvey's shop looking at his 7 second race car .. the suspension on it was ROCK HARD .. i was jumping on the frame and the car wouldnt even move down

sure he has 1400 hp or whatever .. but he also has 16" wide tires .... i will have 600 hp and 11" wide tires ...

bouncy drag suspension is only for people who cant hook with the tire they have ..

last year ur own car would hook and book .. do u think u would get any better 60' times if u had drag suspension and pulled a wheelie ?? NO u would have a HIGHER 60' ..

if u dont understand the energy conservation law, go back and read ur physics 10 text book

 

You're not supposed to have "bouncy/sloppy" suspension in ANY drag car because that is considered wasted energy. For example, that’s why you don't set up a car with adjustable shocks in the rear to have a quick compression rate. This is why a lot guys leave their stock shocks in that have 50/50 ratio. In the front you want about a 90/10 ratio for drag...fast up slow down. Even 70/30 is better than stock. This is why when you jumped on Harvey's car it didn't go down easily. The bouncy/sloppy suspension is when is raises to fast AND drops too fast = wrong set-up. If it goes down slow, that means more weight is on the rear-tires. You want to plant the rears, not squat and waste energy.

I hope I'm making sense...I'm just regurgitating what a chassis guy told me.

Andy

 

its true, a 90/10 ratio is ideal give or take depending on track conditions 10 force required to raise the shock and 90 to compress it, a 90/10 feels super stiff going down cuz its set for weight transfer. your right on with what you heard andy

 

At the risk of stepping into the middle of things I think you guys are using one big brush on too many types of cars here.

Yes many lower class cars use 90-10's to hold the nose up because they are traction limited but faster stuff with better rear susp. usually would want the nose to settle quicker than that.
I think noting the launch of rule limited SS and stockers should be taken with a grain of salt because they are a special case.
A car that has a properly set up susp with the instant center in the right place does not normally need to reach for the sky.
Tire size verses traction is always a juggling act. Putting fueler tires on everything is not the answer as you use power up turning anything larger than what a well set up car needs.
My expertise is more left and right but we still had to get off the slow corners and make the cars put down the power.
Gerry

 

Hey hey now. This is about me





About meeeeeeee

LOL

Duane

I have a cutlass to. Nice W31

 

Sorry.
To keep it about you, do you also run NO2 on that car?
I read an interesting article years ago about some turbo guys that drilled their compressor housing to point the NO2 directly at the blades of the compressor wheel. Supposedly instant boost, no waiting!
Do turbo guys still do this or was it a passing fad?
Gerry

 

I was just joking about me thing.

But no I don't use the nitrous although I have it ready to use. I have a fogger system and it was orginally for back up in case I didn't hit the 400RWHP mark. Then I hit 450RWHP with the boost alone so I didn't spray.Then I got bored so I now am going for a new goal with this bigger turbo of 550-600RWHP on boost alone. I also have an intercooler spray kit that sprays nitrous against the intercooler to cool the charge. That is a big hp gain as well.


To be honest I have not heard of people doing that before. I have a cutlass and was a domestic guy more so than an import guy therefore didn't know to much about turbos before 3 years ago. That is when I got my supra.

Still have cutlass to.

Ss I said Nice Cutlass (well it is a nice year and model) but where are the pics? Says forbidden..

Duane

 

car domain is down right now apparently (for the past 3 weeks)

p.s. im not going to bother with this post anymore obviously you guys have your opinion and we have ours. so the only thing left to do is run it. good luck next year hookin, ill be waiting for ya at the finish line

 

Payam is right you bone heads Pulling wheelies is wasted energy. You want to run the stiffest shock possible and still be able to hook. 90/10's are great off the line but going down the track they will slow you down as compared to a stiffer shock. On a car like mine that makes near 800 horse power on a 10 inch tire i need to transfer the weight to the rear tires to get the car out of the hole. However, I dont want to do i giant wheel stand either. I just want to bring them up enoughf so i can get the car to hook up. Rash's car is another example, 1800 horsepower on a 10.5W tire. Im sure youve all seen big wheel stands from his car, does he want that? Hell No. All his best runs were when he just brought the tires up a bit and carried them out so he could really get going. Payams car lauching this year was a waste of energy, he would pop the wheels up but didnt have enoughf power to carry the car foward, there was too much weight going to the rear tires, so obviously he needs to stiffen his suspension to get the car out of the hole.

There is too many book read racers and posers on here i suspect. You boys need to get off the computer and go out and race before you flap your gum because unless youve done it, you've got no idea.

 

Hey GTStang...I think you need to go and re-read my posts...bonehead. I'm just regurgitating what my best friends Dad has told me for years, someone who holds SEVERAL NHRA world records in Comp Eliminator. So before you go and call me a 'book reader," you should go back and read my posts because it just makes it look like you failed grade one english.

Andy

PS= I've been going to Mission since I was 10 years old...long enough to know alittle bit about it.

 

GTstang your being an arrogant idiot as ususal like eveyone on VS is saying these days, not impressive. im sure 30+ year gurus in suspension and racing technology know nothing compared to your emmense knowledge in racing. i suggest going to "real" races not SL's to find out a bit more of whats going on. i think your mis reading as usual, were not going wheelies vs no wheelies here. that was just an example of proper weight transfer its proper drag suspension vs road handling stiff suspension. ive been in real racing since i was 7 years old, ive been to 100's of races and i know alot of knowledgable people in racing. including the ET world champion in pro bracket, but he doesnt know anything. or how bout alf wiebe, west coast of this continent guru master for chassis and suspension. builds all sorts of chassis from pro to pro modified, but he doesnt know anything either cuz you guys are the real masters.

i listen to the experience and knowledge of people that have been doing this along time and have reserched and done the hard work and testing etc. and i try to pass it on to others as i learn it. i can garuntee if you gys took your cars to a chassis/suspension guy that knew what he was doing he could whip up something in your cars that i garuntee that would make them go faster every time and more consistant. and GT if you think your car is fine where its at then thats laughable, it spins going into third! get a hood on it and but some weight transfer in it to put more weight on the rear when your going down the track the added aerodynamics at that mph will greatly help your time and having the front a bit higher wont hurt to the point past the aerodynamic/traction issue. i think andy and i are on the same wavelength here, we understand what the suspension has to be to what the car needs to be optimal.

you keep talking about rash's car so lets tal about it. in everything there is a action/reaction when the motor makes power it is passed down the drivetrain into the tires to propel the car forward. the reaction of this is torque as a force applied to the car via a rotating motion. your misconception of stiff vs whats needed is the issue. when a car with that much hp transfers that much energy through the chassis. the chassis has to be really stiff as to not absorb some of the power. the spring "stiffness" is actually how many lbs ber inch is needed to appy the spring down 1 inch. those are specificlly made drag springs for his hp range and chassis. cuz the amount of force applied to the chassis and ground is so great the reaction is to deflect the power elsewhere if the tire wont slip. same applies to not enough traction, if the applied power is not enough to hook the tire with the proper weight over the wheels then the tire will not be able to hold therefore lost power into white nothingness. the amount of compression/rebound to spring rate is needed is the misconception. if rash had a softer setup his car woud bind and ground out. and it would be a retarded mess. hence why hes got wheelie bars also to keep the torque transfer in moderation. when you see a car wheelie its not lost power to the point of where you can come down out of it smoothly without getting off power or grounding your car out.

whem you wheelie its due to efficiency in the chassis and suspension delivering as much of the torque lb force to the wheels, when the wheels dont move cuz they can stick, thats the action. the reaction is trying to rotate the car on the wheel cuz in the law of action reaction the force needs to be somewhere. the result is a lifting force, because the amount of torque is greater then the energy required to lift up the car via the pivot point. payams little jolt with one inch under the wheels is headed in the right direction of what you need but its not "bogging" the car down. efficiently applying the power is more like it. but you guys can think what you want cuz you guys are the mojo here. like i said before do what you want ill do it the way the experts and physics dictate and well see who has a frustrating time getting their car to work.

 

You go boyee