what does it takes to beat an LS1?
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,109
From: Pittsburgh, PA
You can't race them hp to hp (as in you can't say you need 335 hp out of the lt1 to keep up with a 335 hp ls1). They are different engines, different trannies. I would say a almost full bolt-on lt1 will be a driver's race with a stock ls1. I recently raced an 02 ws6 with a lid and catback.. and I was slowly pulling him.
When I just had headers and a tune, my buddies 02 z28 would VERY SLOWLY creep on me, but I would kill him out of the hole.
IMO, mild bolt ons and you got yourself a driver's race.
When I just had headers and a tune, my buddies 02 z28 would VERY SLOWLY creep on me, but I would kill him out of the hole.
IMO, mild bolt ons and you got yourself a driver's race.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 271
From: Dallas, TX, USA
actually, they have pretty much the same tranny.
if you have stock wheels i dont think i would get slicks.
but if you can get a decent header set up go for it, but remember you need the rest of the exhaust and a tune.
if you have stock wheels i dont think i would get slicks.
but if you can get a decent header set up go for it, but remember you need the rest of the exhaust and a tune.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,070
From: Austin, TX or Texas State University at San Marcos
An M6 with CAI and a cutout should be trapping more than 99-100. I trapped 99 stock... Maybe you should do a tune up. With a cold air, Mid lengths, and a cutout I ran 13.5@105. Since this guy is an auto he probably traps around the 103 range so you arent too far behind. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,312
From: Aurora, IL
Tranny wise, they are near identical minus a couple small differences such as the input shaft and bellhousing. The suspensions are also the same and the rearends and gearing are very similar as well, the only difference being I believe the Posi units were made by different vendors. I would say it would take a full bolt-on LT1 to comfortably handle an LS1.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 408
From: Charleston, SC
Again, it depends on how much more HP/TQ you need. I.e, how much HP/TQ does the LS1 have? If we are talking Stock v. Stock, you will obviously need to gain at least 50 hp. So, assuming the LS1 remains the same, then the Lt1 will need to add at least 50 HP.
So: Starting with 300 (for the sake of arguement) we begin by adding a CAI, 1.6 RRs, LT headers and mail-order tune.
CAI=8 RWHP+-
1.6 RRS= 12 RWHP+-
LT Headers=15 RWHP+-
Tuning=10 RWHP+-
Total RWHP gain= 45+- (bearing in mind that it is the combination that makes the differences in gains).
So using 15% loss +- you should have around 353 hp to the crank---which gives you about the same power as the out-of-the box LS1.
Of course there are different things and combinations that will provide the needed numbers, but the above are basically the bolt-on that will do the trick.
So: Starting with 300 (for the sake of arguement) we begin by adding a CAI, 1.6 RRs, LT headers and mail-order tune.
CAI=8 RWHP+-
1.6 RRS= 12 RWHP+-
LT Headers=15 RWHP+-
Tuning=10 RWHP+-
Total RWHP gain= 45+- (bearing in mind that it is the combination that makes the differences in gains).
So using 15% loss +- you should have around 353 hp to the crank---which gives you about the same power as the out-of-the box LS1.
Of course there are different things and combinations that will provide the needed numbers, but the above are basically the bolt-on that will do the trick.
Full bolt-on m6 lt1's dyno around 325rwhp/350rwtq.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
I'm giving you numbers +-. Also, what do you consider a full bolt-on lt1?
Cams and heads don't count. So you are pretty much left with CAIs, higher-ratio RRs, headers, tuning, etc. Plus those power saving bolt ons like EWPs UDs, etc. And you are pretty much nickle and diming when you start counting those things.
So when you say you should expect between 325-350 RWHP with full bolt-ons I must be overlooking something that is considered a bolt-on.JMHO
Cams and heads don't count. So you are pretty much left with CAIs, higher-ratio RRs, headers, tuning, etc. Plus those power saving bolt ons like EWPs UDs, etc. And you are pretty much nickle and diming when you start counting those things.
So when you say you should expect between 325-350 RWHP with full bolt-ons I must be overlooking something that is considered a bolt-on.JMHO
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 408
From: Charleston, SC
I'm giving you numbers +-. Also, what do you consider a full bolt-on lt1?
Cams and heads don't count. So you are pretty much left with CAIs, higher-ratio RRs, headers, tuning, etc. Plus those power saving bolt ons like EWPs UDs, etc. And you are pretty much nickle and diming when you start counting those things.
So when you say you should expect between 325-350 RWHP with full bolt-ons I must be overlooking something that is considered a bolt-on.JMHO
Cams and heads don't count. So you are pretty much left with CAIs, higher-ratio RRs, headers, tuning, etc. Plus those power saving bolt ons like EWPs UDs, etc. And you are pretty much nickle and diming when you start counting those things.
So when you say you should expect between 325-350 RWHP with full bolt-ons I must be overlooking something that is considered a bolt-on.JMHO
The numbers aren't my opinion. And what you call "nickel and diming" are some of the best mods for lt1's and is what makes a car full bolt-ons. Other wise it wouldn't have the word full in front of it.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
I'm not sure what you mean about the numbers I was giving---i.e. what numbers. If you are talkling about the numbers I am giving for the mods, of course, you can't be sure unless you dyno before and after each mod.
If you are talking about the stock numbers given for the lt1 and the ls1, I would say that I am damn close. I.e. Stock Lt1 235-270
RWHP. Stock LS1 280-305 RWHP. Whatever the actual numbers, the LS1 has the LT1 beat by around 50 HP at the crank. And if everything else was equal, 50 additional hp usually prevails.JMHO
If you are talking about the stock numbers given for the lt1 and the ls1, I would say that I am damn close. I.e. Stock Lt1 235-270
RWHP. Stock LS1 280-305 RWHP. Whatever the actual numbers, the LS1 has the LT1 beat by around 50 HP at the crank. And if everything else was equal, 50 additional hp usually prevails.JMHO
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
You still haven't explained what "full" bolt-ons means. It must mean something specific, or include some required mods to be considered full bolt ons. Otherwise, how would anyone know what you meant---to wit: if you have 2 cars sitting side by side and the signs on them say "full boltons does that mean they are both equal. Just curious, because I've always wondered what that meant. I'm reasonably certain what it doesn't include, even though juice and boost are both bolted on.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,388
From: Moore Oklahoma
Some 3.73s, or even better 4.10s will really improve your car's performance and help you kick some LS-A$$!
For some reason, I enjoy out-running LS cars "almost" as-much-as Mustangs! I guess I'm just old-school and really enjoy building and running my LT engines!
WD
For some reason, I enjoy out-running LS cars "almost" as-much-as Mustangs! I guess I'm just old-school and really enjoy building and running my LT engines!
WD
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 408
From: Charleston, SC
You still haven't explained what "full" bolt-ons means. It must mean something specific, or include some required mods to be considered full bolt ons. Otherwise, how would anyone know what you meant---to wit: if you have 2 cars sitting side by side and the signs on them say "full boltons does that mean they are both equal. Just curious, because I've always wondered what that meant. I'm reasonably certain what it doesn't include, even though juice and boost are both bolted on.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 408
From: Charleston, SC
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,070
From: Austin, TX or Texas State University at San Marcos
Bottom of the line, this guy probably needs at least headers to beat the LS1 friend of his. If not gears and headers and maybe a little EWP action. I gained 8 RWHP from my EWP. Might be worth a shot, but as for you getting your but kicked... Its gonna be a close race either way so this guy is way too confidant. Just don't race him from a dig 