Props to this guy, I think we've saved another one! The math is really a none issue, I'm half asian and drive a Z... it's faster by -far- and is a kickass car to drive. Take a look around our board, specially the LT1 tech folder... You'll see that a lot of these guys really know they're ****. Stock for stock it will kick a civics ***. Mod for mod you can go much further and for the buck go much faster.

 

Let me throw some wrenches in alot of your equations, A freind and I just built a 383 shortblock for less than 2000 $ hmmm add a set of heads ported by me with big valves and a 3 angle valve job 250$ , put in a new cam from GM (made by crane) from a freind at 10% above dealers cost 150$ use old good lifters, buy new hardened pushrods stock length 35$headers 350, custom y-pipe 150$ use a dump at the track 20$ heres where you spend the money 2000$ for a 9 inch ford rear. now buy and adjustable nitrous system to 200hp and a new in tank 255 ltr per hr fp 700$, new driveshaft 300$ slicks and rims (skinnies up front) 1000$, box your lower control arms at home with your welder and some scrap metal and put poly bushings in 30$, have it dyno tuned with a junk set of injectors that have been cleaned (off of a turbo thunderbird ,32#ers) 800$ home made subframe connectors 0$, 6 point cage 200$. now go blow the 10 second civics off the freaking track.

 

Okay, $10,000 being the limit right?

Let's say ya got a deal on both cars, $5,000 each, pick a year.

Add $5,000 in mods, don't care about reliability, and what do you have:

Z28: Nitrous, intake, exhaust, converter(or clutch), subs and maybe a traction device, like ET Streets/Drags.
...should net 11s, low12s with no problem.

Civic: Whatever VTEC guys do with $5,000, have yet to see one click 11's on $5,000 budget.

For weight savings, let's say both cars either would stay stock weight or break out the sawzall and go nuts, either way, the Civic would gain no advantage because the weight savings mods would be equal.

Hell with this post, if it can be done, on equal budget, nobody would own an LT1 except those who couldn't live with the body styling/loud V8.

...I did see a CRX at LVD 2 weekends ago click off a low 12, with a for sale sign on it, and it did look pretty much stock. Have no clue what the dude did, but it was making some domestics look pretty bad, until it blew something the last pass I seen it make (3rd pass). Gotta admit, the thing surprised me a little, as this turd looked stock, not even a shopping cart wing or rain gutter ground fx.

 

For 10k alot could be had of either car. But unless the Civic is turned into an all out race car it will never produce the timeslips that 10k into a LT1 would. Also why start with a Civic Si, The fastest one I have seen a the strip had a supercharger, DC exhaust, cam gears. Result 14.5. Thats barely stock LT1 territory. Build the LT1 you will be happy that you did.

 

Talk, talk talk....Dollar for dollar a V8 will respond better to mods. Bottom line is 4pistons VS 8pistons. A ricer that would beat my lightly modded Z would have spent 3-4 times as much as me and would most likely spray it too. If I would have the same mods as the 4banger then it wouldn't be a race.

However power to weight ratio it's all about tracktion and driver. In this case it would be in the extreme modded Fbods and rice.

I made My VW Bug 2.3L w200hp beat any stock stang back in the day. But I'll tell you I did every mod I could without a turbo, Big heads, cam, pistons, 1 3/4 headers right out of the head and stroked with dual webber 44s.

 

Love this arguement, plenty of import haters running around Any car can be made fast, any car can be taken too far and lose it's streetability. Heck the Z almost starts unstreetable... on snow. Those 10s Civics I mentioned aren't trailer queens they drive to and from the track. That same shop has a true trailer queen built on what looks like a 3rd gen f-body that runs 9s. Now that car isn't streetable, completely obnoxious exhaust, paper weight body your typical pro street car.

Then since we always compare the LT1 vs. LS1 and purchase cost comes up where is it here? Buying a 97Z and a 97Si isn't the same sticker price. Here the Honda is an easy $5000 less and climbing since f-body got discontinued asking prices on them is going up. So the arguement is really can a 15K mod Civic run with 10K LT1. Yes and it'll do it forced induction which is nice for daily driver, snow comes and boosy gets turned down, snow leaves and well you get the point. Our 383 stroker though is ***** to the wall all year and not much fun on the snow.

For those that don't daily drive or winter drive their f-bodies you've already concieded that it's a race day car even if it's not a trailer queen.

It all comes down to what you want. The f-body is a large platform and not much is going to change that. It's lively at high RPMs and oversteer is fun but a boat is a boat. The Honda is a small platform that can be a lot of fun(not gut wrenching accel) but fun none the less. Course anyone making an import should go with high power or low weight platform. Nissan has 300ZX that can put out nice HP but is heavy, Toyota has Supra which makes Camaro look like a skinny but can make nice power, Honda HAD the CRX which in one engine swap becomes a decent power, LOW weight, excellent handling, excellent braking, quick ET ugly little car

But I'd never buy an import, too unreliable, too expensive to repair and too many years of rice enthusiasts. Heck the hardest thing to do as an import owner is find anyone who knows something worth listening to. Every 'speed' shop for imports are usually just rice shops. Tapp Auto is the exception here and their customers do have some very quick cars that look bone stock, no rice including the driver. Not trying to pick a fight but if you can't see how anything but displacement can make for a fun ride then you need to step out of the box for a bit and look around. I've always felt the f-body was too polite the feedback to the driver is really poor and although you're flying the flatform is too smooth to convey that. Imports on the other hand aren't nearly as fast but do a great job of conveying speed to the driver. Your lap times and your ET will be higher in an import but it's more fun go figure.

Heck if all you want is quick get a bike. Run 11s stock on a bike that runs $5000. Get some mods and get into 9s for another $1000 and totally streetable except on snow. A beater car and a race bike will always cost you less than a built car and you're covered no matter the road conditions. And if you thought running down the track in a car was a thrill imagine on a bike.

Seta

 

I'll give you a little personal experience, then my opinion. I know a guy with a 94 integra GSR. He has done a popular motor swap called the "LS/Vtec swap". Basically taking the LS integra motor that has more torque, and putting a Vtec head on it. He was stripped to save weight. His mods were ported head, 1 3/4 in header, hondata, iceman intake, civic SI tranny, and some other odds and ends. None of the parts were low buck crap parts, the header alone cost him $800!! We raced from a roll which is his strong point and my weak point since I'm an auto. I pulled a good two cars on him from 65-95. My mods are in the sig.

I like the LT1 because I can work on it. Right now I'm doing a set of heads. I just jumped right into the project, hopefully I'll have good results. If I could spend 10k on my LT1, here is what I'd do-

complete rebuild with forged pistons, crank and lightweight rods.
AFR stage II LT4 heads.
pick a good turbo cam
Junkyard turbo setup
9" rear
fuel pump

Just remember there are hidden costs and things get real expensive real quick, but parts for an LT1 are cheaper

John

 

When i read this post i was disgusted. Anyone who has been to a real track and seen the ricers come out of the woodwork knows that this is a joke. I could beat a civic with my trans stuck in first and my parking brake on. adding about 7 g's to the civic MIGHT make it as fast *** my car now. What i would do is essentially spend 9500 on my car for fun, run low 11's or high 10's against the civic. Then, with the 500 left over, i would by an old Blazer K5, and run over the civic so that it can never be "raced" again. Just a few angry thoughts....

 

Yes the honda is lighter but it also has HALF the displacment.
the V8 will make up for the weight difference and MORE. there are reasons that all the drag cars that run below 9 seconds are V8;s not turbocharged Rice burners

 

And they say there's no such thing as a stupid question

Just kidding. LT1 4th gen is faster stock, by so much it's ridiculous. Add $10,000 and the difference is even greater. Hell, I bet there are Civics with $10K in mods (including labor) that aren't any faster than an LT1 with basic mods (CAI, headers, rear end and/or stall, tires).

Rich Krause

 

a civic can become abeast when you put a LT1 in it

 

A Vega can become a beast when you put a big-block chevy in it!

This has got to be the silliest subject I've seen yet on CZ28.com. If all you want is "the fastest" then that's too easy. You can't polish a turd though.... a 10 second Civic is still just a Civic... I'd rather be seen in the F-body.

-Mindgame

 

Hey, TMD, doesn't one of your buddies have a Honda? Bring him by the Camaro Meeting this weekend. He can pick on a number of Camaros of choice. I'm sure none of us will back down. No matter which card he draws, he'll still lose.

By the way, I hear a lot of talk about drags... what about the twisties. My car is set for corner carving and I'd like to take him through a canyon. I can't see the weight balance of a FWD handling the corners of a RWD or a mid-wheel drive. Honda did figure that out with the S2000. The best road race vehicles are powered by their rear wheels.

The only exception would be off-road Rally Championships but then you would go for an AWD.

10 K - I'd go with a built 383, upgrade the rear, upgrade the trans, and N2O at 200 (or whatever you want with a forged bottom end).

 

 

Stupid *** question...I REALLY hope its a joke.
Ive never seen a fast civic in my lifetime. Some exist, but were such a waste of money, the owners are prolly ashamed they spent so much to get a stupid CIVIC to go fast.
You can make anything fast..but please, if you're comparing an LT1 and civic, give me a break. You can get a civic into 10s, but goodluck running that on the street when you cant turn! LT1's have gotten into what, 8's?