10 grand in a civic si... I take it your talking about the newer ones and not the hatches...
regardless if you dump 10 grand into an LT1... and lets say 2500 is in making it more reliable by means of a 9 inch rear... you got 7500 to dump into a streetable built 383 stroker which will give close to 500 at the crank. Deep 12's to 11's at well over 110mph. I have never seen a streetable full interior civic si run more than a 12.9 @ 108mph.

So taking a serious look at this... the LT1 would destroy a civic si both having 10 grand in them.

 

I agree that if we are talking N/A and or stock engine there is NO comparison. LT1 by a long shot ! ! and even if we go forced induction on both, the LT1 has a advantage up to a certain POINT.

Also, if all performance parts are NEW IN BOX, there is no comparison. LT1 by a long shot.

Here is a popular mechanics "Under 10,000 Civic Project"
http://popularmechanics.com/automoti...00/index.phtml

All they could manage was 14's ! ! ! And That's supercharged !

However, if we are talking a budget build up, it's a completely different story because of the import culture. Only ricers pay the prices you see on webpages and at performance shops. Engine swaps are much cheaper on Honda's than many people assume.
And again because of the FWD, and WEIGHT factor, $10,000 in STRICTLY performance mods on a Civic simply goes further. Why do not many people realize this ?

Well. . .one example... look at the popular mechanics "HOT ROD" pricelist. It's a joke ! ! ! ! Only the first 4 are power adding mods.

Parts And Price List:

Jackson Racing Supercharger $2895.00
Custom Exhaust System 580.00
DC Sports Header 440.00
Intake 200.00

Baer Racing Brakes 1000.00 (not a power adder)
House Of Kolor Paint 1000.00
Tokico Adjustable Shocks 732.00
American Racing Wheels 720.00
Hoosier Tires 600.00
Engine Dress-Up 260.00
Rear Suspension 135.00
Shifter 110.00
Mooneyes Gauges and Tach 181.00
Mooneyes
Skull Shift **** 24.00
Flamed Floor Mats 36.00
Skull Valve Stem Caps 18.50
Barefoot Gas Pedal 18.50
Honda Driving Lights 259.00
Chrome Grille 181.63
Windshield Lettering 100.00
License Plate Frame 12.00
Clutch 400.00

Total $9902.63


10,000 build up, and $6,000 of it is in appearance mods

This is a great topic.

 

Well just to throw fuel on the fire....

The Fastest Civic/Integra I have ever seen/raced was a Real Type R Integra. It ran low 14s on drag Radials/ with a few bolt-ons. I'm not sure what all was done, but it ws very quick for a small car like that. Plus it was N/A.

I have read an article on what it takes to get 500 HP out of a Civic, they had to do a major engine work, and add a turbo making 22+ lbs of boost, and run 110 Octane race gas ALL THE TIME <~~ NOT VERY CHEAP The motor cost a little less than 10K

Also The shop that did the build up admitted that they couldn't build a transmission that would hold the Engine for more than a couple of months/trips to dragstrip.
They said that for every hour spent driving the car you were likely to spend two hours fixing it due to broken parts.

Now I can think that 500 Horse in a Civic would be crazy/Very Fun due to the low amount of weigth that a CRX, or Del Sol would have.

But I have to be honest and think that a 383+ Cubic Inch LT1 would easily get way more than 500 RWHP If you run either a Supercharger/Turbo/ or Nitrous. Also the LT1 could have a transmission built that would be able to handle the motor. I would think that with a cage and some major suspension work it would still be semi-streetable whereas the Civic would be a race only car realilistically.

 

Yes, you can do it for less than $5000, didn't I say that in my first post? The problem is then RELIABLITY. You strap a super or turbo on a civic motor, without it being built to take the strain of that extra power, and what do you have? A blown motor! It's the same as the ricers that put a 200 shot of N20 on their cars. What do you have a couple bottles down the road? A blown engine! Yes, an engine swap is cheap, but only if you do it youself. But if you simply swap the stock motor in a civic for a H22, you aren't going to have your 14s in 1/4. Other things, from internals, exhaust, header, induction, electronic, ect. need to be done to get there. The H22 only puts out about (don't quote me on this, I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head) 190 HP and 155 TQ. And, if you're talking about budget buildup, I doubt I'm going to waste $10K on a civic and honda engine setup when I can build a GenI chevy small block in an old nova or chevelle body and run 8s in the 1/4. And it's still street legal. Not exactly pretty, but still streetable.

 

Now what if you were to have a lt1 and a ls1 and 10 grand for each. Which one would be faster and last longer

Just joking, don't want to throw this thread off track

 

I agree...

That right there and the appearance and reliability factor is why I love my Z ! !

 

For what it's worth a real import shop here has two high 10s Civics. These are pure chargers though, no rice and Hoosiers up front. Does it look right? No. Can you make a Civis fast? Err they weight nothing so you bet. Heck a CRX with minor mods can run with stock LT1. It's about HP/LB and once you mess with compression and forced induction any car can make ridiculous amounts of HP.

Seta

 

Even with an engine swap, nitrous, boost, weight benifit, it will still get stomped by a tame, streetable LT1.
Pyshics folks. If you think a 300+ HP car is hard to launch in a RWD car, try it in a FWD car. Given two vehicles of comparable power/weight/tire size, one being fwd, the other rwd, the rwd will have close to a 1 second advantage.

I go to a lot of import races for work. I can tell you that anything running quicker than 11's results in a oil down, also.

Something else to keep in mind is that the 1.6 DOHC Vtech is already 100 HP per liter. That's very efficient. So efficient, that it will take power adders to get any significant gains in power. CAI, Cat back, headers, etc will have little effect. All the bolt on's result in about 10 FWHP. Also, the 1.6 DOHC is about 11.5:1 compression, so be careful with boost or nitrous on the stock bottom end!!!!

As far as getting a stolen hatchback and swapping in a prelude motor, lets compare apples. How about a stolen 78 Z28 with a 502/TH400/2500 stall/4.10's/lincoln locker/same seat....10's baby!!!! For less than 6K.

Finally, the Civic has an ultra sensitive temp sensor in the intake tract, when air temp is over 105 degrees, it pulls tons of timing to save the high compression 4 popper. That's why you rarely see one running 15's at the track. After sitting in the lanes for 30 minutes, intake temps are 120+ and it's retarding about 12 degrees.

Just my .02. Of course, there are a lot of 12 and 13 sec camaro's running around, so if you want to be different, build a 12 sec streetable honda with no wings, stickers, thumpy stereos, etc and get respect with ET's instead of DB's. It's only money

Scott

 

PLEASE READ

I have had my experience with imports and domestic. People with imports base everything on weight. Quote(I can get of the line faster). But the little civic can not make the horsepower that v-8 can. And guess what you can make a camaro lighter. But here is what the mods can get you for civic to Camaro in terms of horsepower.

Civic Camaro
Headers 15hp 30hp
NOS 75hp 250hp
Supercharger 60hp 150hp
Cam 30hp 70hp
Intake 10hp 20hp
Gears none faster

Civic SI has 180hp I think and after these mods has now has 370hp.

A Camaro Z has 305 and after mods has 825 horsepower.

Now there would be a lot of money in the engine to hold these numbers if either one can hold the nos and supercharger combined but I think the camaro has the advantage. Now I know your asking this because one of your civic friends is living in CIVIC WONDER LAND but snap him out of it. Yea there is a lot more mods but I dont have the patience to go threw all the magazines and compare so these are the important ones

 

sorry guys, i never meant to offended anybody, truly sorry guys, but curiosity is my speciality, so please forgive me...because in about 2-3 years time, i'm gonna save up to $10000 and just wondering around, LT1 is a truly madly deeply great car, thanks for all the replies, i'm gonna mod my car up to 11 sec. car and still make it streetable..... , so i can say bye bye ricers everyday, as you all know, it is the best feeling

 

Here's a real world example.. take a LT1 camaro, do a budget 383 bottom end, add a set of ported heads, CC305 cam, Hooker L/T's, strange 12 w/ 3.73's, some ET streets, and a shot of spray. make sure it passes emission tests.
Drive it every day (only car) with spare set of wheels for your radials..
Go to the track on weekends (driven, not towed)
run 10.80's on pump gas thru the full exhaust with dual cats, and drive home..
Build it in your garage on a real world budget.. and not break it every time you run it.

Do it for way less than $10,000

Now show me any import, that was built in the garage, that can do that on PUMP gas, and I'll say "cool"

 

Well, you can make any car fast, its just how much money you want to spend, and how fast you want to go. With 10K, I could do a lot to both cars. Civic first.

Sell the B16 - Now I have $13,000 to play with

GSR SWAP - $3000
Pistons, Rods, Blockguard - 1500 (inlcuding rings, bearings, gaskets)
custom Turbo manifold - 500
T3 60-1 Turbo - 700
Custom IC piping - 250
Clutch - 350
Hondata 2b - 600
Injectors $250
fuel pump - 100
FMIC - 800
Moroso pan - 500
stuts/coilovers - 850
cf hood - 450
wheels/tires - 1500

$1500 for grudge race money left

Car would run easy 11s @ 120 plus on pump gas, plus you can always turn up the boost on race gas.

Now the camaro

Budget 383 stroker - 3500
Ported heads ~1800
Cam - 300
rockers - 300
pushrods - 100
gaskets - 200
wires - 100
headers - 600
electric h20 pump - 150
zr1 wheels - 1000
digital6 - 250
tunercat - 100
clutch - 500


Leaves you with $1100 grudge money.

Car would run easy 11s @ 120+ on pump gas, plus its built to take a good hit of nitrous.

Either way you have it, they will run close to the same. It just depends on what you are wanting from the car. I am hoping to run in the mid 12s when I get my cam in, and I will have less than $2000 in mods.

I also have a 4 door ef civic that I am gonna put an ls motor in. $300 motor, traded a seat for the trans, mount kit is $325. Junkyard turbo kit for ~1000, and bow, 13 second car! Yeah. Run some race gas and 20lbs of boost, with good tuning, it should see 120 traps.

Damn I love hondas.

 

yes, honda's can be made quick, but the money spent doing that.. is better spent on a 350. parts are normally cheaper.. and easier to come by, and neither one allows for much room in the engine compartment. i am for the h22 mod though..

 

I've seen some Honda's that are pretty quick. A friend of mine has a CRX with a ***-Spec B16 and some computer mods and a high performance tranny (not to mention a few other mods he won't mention) and he has litterally kicked my a**. I hate to say it but it's damn fast probable around mid to high 12's. And he doesn't have NOS or turbo. But then again, it's also stripped

 

Well, that's ricer talk if I ever heard it. Let's see the car! If that was what we were talking about, here's my F-body buildup.

Get a big block out of a wreck. Rebuild it in my garage add an 8-71 blower and run it on alcohol. Hook it up to a Powerglide, tub out the back end and run a 12-bolt out of the same wreck. Slip that sucker into a stripped out F-bod and run in the 8's easy. See - it's not that hard to run eights and it's cheap

Rich Krause