OneFlyn95z28

http://groups.msn.com/WashingtonFBod...me.msnw?Page=1







A PP port job......................

97 RedSS

Only way he defended them is by sayin he is running them on his car and he likes them..He DID NOT know the heads that followed his were gonna be junk..most porters are consistant at what they do..He was expecting people to get a good set of heads at a decent price..He thought since he was makin great power and a few buddes of his in Shrevport were they would work great..I guess its hard to see unless you are in Beasts position..Im not sure what I woulda done..

Cody

ElkyRacer

Im going to jump in here also. I know Jason, have talked to him quite a few times. In person, and via internet. I have also seen his car run those times at the track. I feel sorry that he got caught up in all this BS. He never did come to me pushing PP heads at all. I did ask him about them, and he told me what he knew and told me he could help me out when I was ready to order a set. He didnt even give me the same price Mike had quoted me. Jason seems to have just gotten caught up in a bad deal. But unlike most ppl, he has the ***** to not just tuck his tail and run. I think its pretty damn impressive to see someone who isnt even EMPLOYED by this place, TRY and make things good. Why would someone be so passionate about screwing ppl over that he would go THIS far to keep doing it? I would like to see Jason resolve all of this, and find out WHY so many of those port jobs went to crap. If he were a crook, he would just duck and run.......

Kyle

Ai

I was asked to post the other pics I have... I cant find all the old ones, but here are a few in addition to a copy paste of the ones I linked earlier if anyone is curious...

atrocious valvejob (if you can even call it a valvejob)
dropped head and someone didnt even knock the mushroomed part off that hung below the deck
Grinder marks across intake surface (we'd never ship something like that
I dont even know what to say about these winglets

Hammered Valve? hard to tell
Leaky Intake/Odd Chamber
Closeup of same
Intake Runner.. is that a casting parting line? Who the hell knows..
Idiot got ahold of the Exhausts too... he must have something personal against guidebosses...

Here's a clear picture of a homeport someone did and sent to me.. uglyness ... methinks theyre on par with some of the stuff pp put out.

Well.. I was asked to post them so.. there they be, if i come across the others.. i suppose ill upload them too.. but I dont see what difference it makes. A few of us have tried to tell people for the past year what was going on.. maybe now ppl will listen .

I dont care what Jason says.. im sure he's a nice guy and all.. but people have been getting screwed out of money, and he took part in it... and that's about all there is to it. Posting in his defense isnt going to put money back in the pockets of the people who got ripped off... if you wanna rectify the situation.. do that.

Dr.Mudge

Mr. Mehoff/Abrams(?) yep...

Kraest

ROFL!!!!!!

Man, that's awful.

It seems like the internet is famous for hyping-up unknown shops who apparently don't know what they're doing and making them rich. I know of another shop that went the same way, but I can't say much about them because I think they still sponsor this site.

Mike

Beast96Z

Thanks guys for posting in my defense. I'm glad a few people can see where I'm coming from. I guess they didn't understand the part about me only selling 2 people heads, and neither one of them have had any problems. Why should I have to rectify for something I had no hand in? Like I stated before, I will be there for the testing of some of these bad heads, and then I will report on the situation. Until then, I see no more reasons for me to post on the subject. You guys are beating a horse that died a year ago.

BBB

Seems to me what we have here is one guy that liked a product and put out a good word about it. Then another guy who makes his $$$ porting heads and such is trying to heap on him all the grief that happens in a competative business.
It seems that:
Beast didn't port the heads.
Beast didn't broker every PP deal made.
Beast tried to explain his relationship with PP (a satisfied customer).
PP has generally TRIED to make things right (but they appear to lack skill or knowledge in porting).

It also seems that another porter is plenty bent about somebody else getting porting business. If thier business sucks sit back and get porting your own heads and people will come. Stop giving this guy un-necessary grief.

I have read that other people have got FLP longtube headers that have warped flanges. My FLPs have been great and my service from FLP has been out standing and I have said so on this board. Should I be blamed for someone elses FLP problems?

Because I like my TA should I be roasted becasue I told someone that I liked my car then they bought one and didn't like it?

For those of you with $$$ involved burned once their fault. Burned twice YOUR fault.

For those of you with money to gain from someone elses misfortune......this could happen to you in a heartbeat. It takes very little to ruin a reputation.

BBB

Ai

There's a huge difference between recommending and having $ exchange hands... but whatever.. thats only Phil's humble opinon . As far as giving people grief.. hey, if you lie, you deserve ever goddamned bit people can shovel on, I hate liars. Noones blaming it all on Jason.. everyone's seen Mike try to defend his garbage in the past.. they know. If people never said anything, then your buddies on the board would STILL be getting ripped off... how can you not say anything?

*shrug* doesnt matter, theyre pretty much done for.

kcsoz20

What does your car run?? N/A?

Mine is fast but not quick??!!!

Oh, by the way, it is stock suspension with no weight reductions!! Therefore no SETUP!!! All motor and running gear!!!

Ken

Ai

Chip on your shoulder ken? Grow up buddy, i told you, you dont like me, email me, christ.. this isnt even your thread lol.

rskrause

I have not followed any of the threads about PP heads and only read this one because it got so long I wanted to know what the heck was going on.

So, I can't comment directly on the topic. But one thing occurs to me while reading about the various woes people who bought these heads experienced. IMHO, the buyers who got a set of crappy heads are at least a small part of the problem. They bought an expensive product that takes a lot of skill and expensive equipment to produce without doing their homework. Based on my experiences, I wouldn't buy something in this category unless I was dealing with a reputable business. A place with a physical address, a phone that is answered by someone who knows something, that takes credit cards (provides a lot of recourse). I would either want to have seen their work with my own eyes or at least have had someone I completely trust verify the quality. You get my drift?

I have learned this lesson the hard way too, when I was younger, and just wanted to articulate it in the hope it helps someone. Not trying to "blame the victim" or rub salt in any wounds.

Also, while I know that it doesn't appear that people bought these heads for the low price, people sometimes are surprized at how much I have spent for work or parts for my car. But when I buy a product or service, I look for quality first and not price. I am not suggesting that the most expensive product is best. Just that the kinds of things I listed above cost money, so don't expect to get excellent quality from a reputable business for rock-bottom prices.

Just rambling, so I'll quit. Hopefully, everyone reading this thread can learn how to avoid wasting their hard-earned money.

Rich Krause

NightTrain66

RSKRAUSE,

I pretty much take the same stance as you when it comed to the "buyer beware" thing and if ya are dumb enough to get F****D than ya should have checked things out more. Well, It is one thing to lie about flow #s (apparently since EVERYINE does it) and give the customer a polished set of heads that 'look" nice but are 20-30 cfm down. It is another thing to send heads out at $1500 a pair (plus cores) that look like the ones in oneflyin95z28's last post. The looks are NOT everything, valve job sealing, valve profile, flow #s, performance, flow #s, and not leaking water are some things you EXPECT from a set of heads at that price. After I saw these heads and the price they are getting for 2-3 hrs of grinder work. WOW. Now I se what all of the fuss is about. The customer pays and then gets heads, how can the consumer even have a chance to know what he is getting. He could get crap like in these pics of descent (apparently) heads like on Beasts car.

Can PP do descent portwork?????? there are some cars that "claim" descent #s with there heads so I truly believe they can. I am not sure why you should settle for sending out this work (oneflyin95z28 pics) instead of doing the same work as on these other cars that make power.

Alot of customers do not know what good/descent/bad portwork or machine work looks like and the average consumer isn't gonna pay to have heads re-flow tested or taken to another machine shop to check there work. Granted ya should not have to at these prices, ya should get quality (cfm, good valve job that seals and flows great, not leak water, etc.) like on SkarodoMs heads and bolt em on and know they are right. You should not have to check out a head for that kinda money (or and price actually) but I would suggest ANYONE GETTING HEADS DONE BY ANYONE TAKE THEM TO A REPUTABLE 3rd PARTY SHOP FOR FLOWING and INSPECTION. Is it money wasted????????? could be if everything is what it was told to be, If they find a problem it is money saved.

I can see where Beast is kinda coming from but no matter what kinda help he is trying to offer if someone loses a motor and gets pissed and wants his $ back, not more heads but $ back, and the porter refuses hopefully the pissed customer will sue/beat the F out of the porter and not Beast. It seems that Beast did get a descent set but at the $ charged EVERY set should be just like those. If the prices were less or if they did not leak water than it would be the average screwing as far as the portwork/ machine work and I would take the same "buyer beware" attitude" At the prices PP charges for the work I have seen I can not stand to see another consumer getting F'd.

I am not a porter that is upset and wants ALL the business if the earlier post refers to me. Dude.....go buy Skarodoms, Killians, CFM performance, Trevor Johnson, Velvi, GTP, AFR, BFD, WTF, WFO or whoever...............I'll try to get their ph # for ya if I have it, just DO NOT pay your hard earned $ for this stuff. I stay WAY busy and just hate seeing people get F'd. I am not the "GREATEST" but I get better cfm #s (every point from .100-.700), the ports look better, never go turbulent, the valves are sealing in the correct spot, and actually seal all around the valve at LESS $ than the PP heads that I have seen. I am not saying PP can't do a better job but these heads were $1500 plus core. To get the ones that are better than mine are they $2000 plus cores???? Than ya have to worry about the whole "water injection" thing.

"BUYER BEWARE"

NightTrain66

bunker

They are all great guys in my opinion, I have talked to Mook aswell, heads make power period! atleast their heads make power, you go to all those fancy shops & they brew you up some very petty heads, you put them on & you see a 10RWHP gain, wow woopty doo, don't wanna call any names.

Beast96Z

I look at it in the same way as 99% of you. The only reason the word got out about these heads is because they made power, on more than one occasion. Dyno sheets have been posted even if you don't believe them. Phil, I don't see how you can say Kens car didn't make the power, when his dyno sheets have been posted here many times. Even if there was a small spike at the end of the run (which is the case in most M6 cars) it still made right at 400 RWHP. This is far better than I have seen from so called reputable porters charging over 2k. Obviously over the past few months PP has been over flowed with work. When the work came in, he got some help from a guy who was supposed to be pretty good with this stuff. This would be when the heads started getting cracks in them. I can't speak for the valve work, but it has to do with the actual guide coming loose. It isn't like he is going to send out heads with offset valves that don't seal. He is obviously having some trouble, and this is why he stoped doing LT-1's until he can get some of these botched sets back. If he gets it straight and the heads start making power without problems again, I will NOT be the middle man. I don't know if anyone will. Some things are best left at home I guess. Sorry if I tried to do a few people a favor and got caught up in a bunch of BS. The little bit of money that I got is not worth the headache I have had to put up with on this board and via E-mail with customers.