I used a second battery connected only to the starter so there was no load on the cars battery eliminating voltage drop at the ECM during crank, and still no-start.

 

There is virtually no mechanical difference between cranking with the starter or push starting. Using the second battery on the starter eliminated every difference.

It's almost certainly an ignition timing issue. There are only two ways I could see a timing issue stemming from use of the starter, but not from a push start. The first, is false knock from a bad knock sensor. The second is a push start revving the engine higher than the starter, and the computer throwing in more advance.

I don't know if it's a good idea to disconnect the knock sensor or not. It's up to you. I'd personally hook a computer up to it first.

 

It`s timing AND no to little injector pulse that`s the issue. So, what would mess with both the timing and injector pulse durring crank??
I know `95 didn`t have the ability with the security system to do that, but does the `96?? Purhaps this car has some `96 parts in it or somethin??
And I have a computer, a Snap-On SOLUS scan tool, there are no codes and it reads cranking RPMs

 

have you taken a battery charger and hooked the ground to the battery and put the hot wire on your starter? it will just make sure you aren't dropping voltage in the cable itself. then reverse it to all your major grounds (motor mount, coil stud and the one above the battery) if you have tried something like this sorry for the repost, been working on my own and keep the ideas seperate in my head.

 

I was talking about a computer that would read spark advance and retard.

I don't think it is a fuel issue. If it was, spraying fuel in the intake would've caused the engine to start. Also, the noid light flashes, exactly as it should. If you want to be doubly sure, check the injectors for 12 ohms of resistance and for 5v's on the hot (pink) injector wire.

You could also double check the PCM ground, this is where the injectors ground through as well. As a previous poster stated, he had a similar problem after his headers burnt the pcm ground wire.

If all of those things check out I think you should stop focusing on the injectors.

I already told you what I thought could cause the ignition timing issues.

 

Snap-On SOLUS shows timing = 4* durring crank. knock sensor signal = no. knock retard = 0*. RMPs = 198. Injector pulse width = 11.2mil/sec. desired RMP = 3128. ECM voltage = 10.2v.

I`ve checked the 4 ground points, the wire harness where it`s covered with the heat tape, the tape seems scorched just a bit, but the wires all look fine. Adding a gound from the battery to the ECM dirrectly doesn`t do anything either.

 

Well that's pretty good across the board. On one of my old logs, my voltage drops to 7v, my injector pulse width is 9ms, and my spark advance is 3.

Try a push start with the scanner on, see what's different. I'm at a loss for any more ideas.

 

I can`t do that, I`m by myself again for a while. Is it possable to rewire/eliminate the security system to rule that out as the cause?

 

???

 

bump

 

11.2 on injector pulse width? shoudn't it measure 1.something. mine is hitting 2. but no where near your 11.2. what size injectors?

 

I stated QUITE some time ago the voltage was a problem. I also said it will cause all kinds of problems with the ECM. It would appear that you never measured it. You simply replied that you used 2 batteries so there should not have been a drop.

There are issues you THINK are a problem and there are issues that you KNOW are a problem. That is unless you don't believe us. But then you shouldn't ask us if you don't trust us in the first place.

You should use your time looking at the issues you know are a problem. That being the low voltage. I will suggest again that you measure the supply voltage at the ECM with it connected and then disconnected. Also with KOEO and while cranking. If you report the voltages, we can continue on to find the cause.

 

excuse me for my ignorance, but I did measure ECM voltage during crank. At least I thought I did. 10.2v was the value. Unless I`m not understanding correctly what you want me to check? Demus reported that the voltage could drop to 7.0v and still run. Am I missing something??

Measure connected and then disconnected?? The ECM? Is it acceptable to crank the car with no ECM connected?

*edit* ...and adding the second battery to only crank the car should have eliminated any voltage drop issue, shouldn`t it?

 

He's suggesting that there might be some sort of voltage drop between the battery and the PCM. Could be from bad/burnt cables, bad grounds, dirty connectors, etc.

Cranking with a second battery would eliminate a bad battery as the cause, but probably not bad connections at the PCM. IMO 10 volts at the PCM is more than enough to operate properly, and have the computer logs to prove it. That said, a quick check and clean of all the cables and connectors is a good idea, if you haven't already done that.

 

I don't recall you ever saying that you put a volt meter in the connections to the ECM and actually read the voltage manually. Did I miss something?

I don't give a rats *** what anyone "thinks" about the low voltage. Under 11 is a problem. 7 is obviously way too low. Let's see anyone get their ECM to function at 7 volts.

If you are measuring less than 14volts DC at the battery when idleing, you have a problem.

The fact that you put another battery to crank the starter does not mean you don't have a voltage drop to the ECM. It only means the starter won't pull it down. But who said the starter was the only reason it was pulled down???

What ever the voltage is at the battery should be the voltage to the ECM. Yes or No?

I'll say it for the last time. The battery should be 12.6 when the engine is off and should be about 14 volts when running. If the battery voltage drops below 11 when cranking, THERE IS A PROBLEM.