I agree fully with your reasoning of fade vs. brake distance and making a determination.

You have demonstrated (and frankly many people in here) their understanding and knowledge of brakes.

Saying, that, I must say you really meant to say, "bigger is in MOST cases better"... right?



... because there is a law of diminishing returns, when a bigger rotor creates a flywheel effect and the brakes are not working as effective as they could.

... but we all knew you meant that.

 

You're right in that magazines aren't always reliable but in a indirect comparison using only their numbers you can get a general idea for how well the brakes on the cars perform and the LT1 brakes stopped faster/shorter then the LS1 systems...and yes there are MANY MANY variables that go into effect when braking, humidity, surface, pretty much anything and everything can affecting braking and acceleration...my point is the mags were never comparing brakes between LT1's and LS1's they more than likely just mash the pedal to the floor and see how well it stops and let the ABS do its thing. Mags are 100 percent reliable but its all we have and is more reliable then "my LS1 brakes feel so much better"...when a lot of that could be the fact that they're NEW or used much less than their 100+k LT1 system that may or may not have been properly maintained...I'm not saying the LS1 system sucks as mentioned earlier from an engineering standpoint you'd expect them to be MUCH better then the LT1 system...but so far I have yet to be convinced in cases of all out hard driving/braking...as for me demanding proof its quit simple...all the guys that have done the conversion say it "feels" better and/or stops faster HOW do you know? My friends L98 92 Z28 feels like its got bigger ***** then my TA and an LS1 for that matter but in reality its not even close to the LS1...spending the money for someone who autocrosses/races and uses the brakes hard it may not be worth it to upgrade to the LS1 system because all the numbers I've seen show the LT1 system to stop better...

and none of the numbers I used in previous posts (except the one with the 9 ft difference) were comparisons by magazines between brakes they were simply stopping numbers from various tests from 93-02...no one had anything to gain/loose in those tests I simply compiled the numbers.

 

Exactly I'd like to find out how well the cars stop...as for fade someone mentioned...I think dave did...read what has been written about fade between the two systems...the LT1 system also appears to be more resistant to fade...I have yet to officially auto X my TA but I did take it through some cones and through a parking lot auto X course with max speeds of about 60mph I ran several laps with no noticeable fade lots of hard on the brakes from 50 or 60 mph...stopping from 100+ may yeild different results but i haven't done it yet.

 

No that anyone is going to do this but to really answer the question I would put 2 LT1, 1 stock and the other with the LS1 upgrade on the same track on the same day and test them. They both have to be of the same family(Camaro, Camaro). Then we could test them. Oh yeah same weight and same driver. 3 runs should do it. In theory the LS1 should be better but they might not be. So far all the evidence point to the fact that they are not on the track.

 

BTW, at high speeds70+ the LS1 upgrade did feel like a made a difference but again it was a "feeling"

 

Well, having driven both of my 93's today, one with the LS1 setup, one with slotted rotors/EBC Greenstuff, here's my $.02.

I much prefer the LS1 setup. It feels better, more smooth, and doesn't take nearly as much pressure to get them going. The car with the LS1 setup feels like it stops a lot faster too, but that's just the butt-o-meter talking. I think I'm going to update my LS1less car.

 

Who has instructions on how to do this upgrade and where can I get the parts besides the dealer?

 

best and cheapest parts come from the junk yard. just take all the lines, spindles and calipers(wouldnt suggest taking the rotors cuz id upgrade them immediately any way, plus you cant tell if they are warped and it costs just as much to turn them as it does to get new rotors.). brand new rebuilt calipers from advanced auto are only 32 dollars a rotor, thats not too bad for a lifetime warranty against "spread" and other kinds of damage.

and for those of you hitting the brakes hard enough to bend your caliper, i think you need to take your foot off the gas a little sooner and start breaking faster.

 

OK here's a FACT:

Even with good pads and rotors, my LT1 brakes could NOT grab hard enough to engage the ABS on dry pavement. Even standing on the brake pedal. (Firestone Firehawks = good grip )

After installing the LS1 brakes, I can now brake just hard enough to make the ABS kick in. This is exactly what I wanted from the upgrade. Before, when the brakes couldn't even grab hard enough to lock the wheel, I wasn't getting the most out of the tire's stopping traction.

To me it doen't really matter how these brakes hold up on a road course, just on the road!

 

See thats something that a lot of people fail to realize...you had something wrong iwth your brakes if you couldn't engage the ABS so you're comparing some worn out possibly faulty LT1 brakes to LS1 brakes...my car will stop in one hell of a hurry and has NO problems getting the ABS to kick in...my braking system is in top shape though too...only thing you could say would be to switch pads cause the rears are beginning to get low...but comparing a bad LT1 system to a new LS1 system isn't a fair comparison by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I had the same experience!

As far as the so called "hard data" in the thread, you have to understand that comparing the braking stats for a 98-02 to a 93-97 is NOT an apples to apples comparison! The front end of the LS1 is lighter than the LT1, and the weight distribution is different.

I actually measured my stopping distances before and after my LS1 brake upgrade and I cut almost 25 feet off my 65-0 distance. that was apples to apples on the same car.

I haven't experienced near as much brake fade as I did with the LT1 brakes. I could never tell where I was going to stop with my LT1 brakes. I know well ahead of time where my car it going to stop due to the reduced fade and inproved feel of the LS1 brakes.

Before you go telling me I had a problem with my brakes...Don't!
I replaced EVERY MAJOR COMPONENT trying to make the car safe for the road. The only thing my LT1 brakes were good for was warping rotors. I measured piston backoff, caliper center, applied hydraulic pressure at the caliper, rebuilt the cailpers, replaced the calipers, bought high end pads, replaced rotors many times. The slide bolts were never hung up. So I was FED UP!

LS1 brakes are an improvement over LT1 brakes, hands down

Should you go SCCA road racing with them?
Hell NO!

But they do make your E4GC safer on the road!

As for the original question in this thread:
No you don't need 17" rims, they fit behind salad shooter just fine.

 

This indeed is interesting data.

25 feet is a significant improvement.

What was the 65 - 0 with the LT1 brakes? Slamhound, indeed ran the right test. It would be unfair to test LT1 brakes on worn pads, and they just gas up and provide little in the way of braking. Any worn pad will do this.

Well done!