Fastbird93

My black 93 has stock brakes with Hawks Slotted rotors and EBC Greenstuff pads.

My purple pearl 93 has LS1 front brakes with stock rear, hawk HPS pads.

I'm planning on upgrading my black car to LS1 brakes.

Nuff said.

IrocManiac

LS1 brakes feel much stickier but in reality under hard braking I don't think there's a difference and the numbers I see HARD numbers show advantage LT1 everytime.

Mikey97Z

I don't know or care what the numbers say. I installed LS1 brakes on my LT1 and it is a BIG improvement! My stock LT1 brakes SUCKED BIGTIME!!! SCARY!!!!!

My LS1 brakes stop much better, and more importantly, they stop BEFORE the stop sign!

Here's a visual comparison of the two systems. You can see the LS1 brakes have 2 pistons, bigger pads, and bigger rotors.

dave1w41

Comparing braking numbers from magazines is not exactly "hard" data. I have done the conversion on my 95 and from what I can tell the LS1 front brake package is far and away superior to the LT1 braking system. I did this conversion in early 1999 and I was impressed with it the minute that I did it. I wouldn't go back to the LT1 system. In fact, I valued the parts so much I gave them away as scrap iron. The LT1 system is the same as the one on a Bonneville from 1992-1999. I used my old rotors on my Dad's car. IMHO, those brakes are 1960's technology that didn't even belong on that car. As far as fade is concerned, it is a combination of pad and rotor that determines fade. A street pad will contribute to fade but a good race pad is always better with a bigger rotor.


BTW, if warpage is an issue (it hasn't been on mine because I know how to use my torque wrench to tighten the wheels) you can always buy better rotors.
Some minor reasons to go to the LS1 brake:

-Rotor is 1 inch larger in diameter
-Pad has almost 30% more surface area
-Caliper is aluminum and about 10 pounds lighter per side than the LT1.
-Caliper is a twin piston design which in theory is better.

The difference in numbers probably comes down to tires and contact with the road. You just can't stop a car any faster than about 110 feet from 60mph with tires that size, there isn't enough contact patch. The variation between 110 and 130 feet is typical of various types of pavement and different temperatures at the time of testing. On a road course while the LS1 system still isn't fantastic without a more solid caliper, it will totally dominate the LT1 system.

Don 97 SS

You are kidding. Right! The 98+ rotors are significantlly larger in diameter and they are dual pistion calipers. From my experience the stopping distance was significantly better than my oem pre-98 front brakes. There is no comparsion in my opinion. The 98+ f-body brakes are superior to the pre-98 brakes.

turbo_Z

the facts:

-dual piston is superior to single piston calipers
-GM wouldnt downgrade the braking system on a faster car
-everyone who upgrades says its a great improvement

i know i need some or something bad b/c with a cam i can seriously feel my brakes lack of stopping power. they feel the same as before until i really dig into them and its almost scary how worthless they are.

IrocManiac

There is no doubt that on PAPER the LS1 braking system wins hands down...I've driven many LS1 cars...problem is when it comes to HARD numbers and yes mag numbers are hard numbers the LS1s do not stop as well as the LT1's...sure there are variables that factor into it but you'd think with such a "superb" braking system stopping faster would be easier...maybe from 100+mph there is a difference until I see an unbiased test with numbers I just don't see what all the fuss is about. I agree with all the above posts about surface area, disc size, caliper pistons etc...I know all to well about that stuff...but on a numbers basis there is nothing that suggest they were better...I've read about 1 swap in a magazine where they did it (can't remembe rthe mag it was a year or so ago in barnes and noble) and they said the feel of the brakes were MUCH MUCH better with the LS1 system but in 60-0 braking the car actually stopped 9 feet shorter with the LT1 system...granted thats just one test...but still pull out mags from 93-03 and read...

DR.ZED

IrocM, you make reasonable statements about the brakes.

I can relate this to when the LS1 first came out, everybody thought they were dogs... until they went to the track.

This could be the same situation.

However, I would be VERY interested in seeing somebody actually test it, with one of their buds each with the different kits. The LT1 rotors and pads will have to be new, along with the LS1 pads.

Any takers?

dave1w41

They would only be "hard" numbers if the cars were identical in every respect and wore the same brand of tire and were on the exact same surface at the same temperature. Beyond that they would have to be driven by the same driver and have a pedal scale installed to measure how much pressure the driver was applying to make it consistent. You are pulling numbers out of a hat trying to defend a braking system that is not even in the ballgame.

Ask anyone who has used both braking systems to their limit - on a road course. There isn't any discussion, the 1998 and newer system is better.

DR.ZED

I'm starting to identify traits about the LS1 system, that seem to change our perception of them, from certain standpoints.

Yes, the LS1 rotors warped MUCH faster than the LT1 rotors.

Yes, the LS1 calipers do spread under hard use over time on the track. I have yet to hear of an LT1 caliper doing this.

The cast iron system, has the same thermal expansion properties throughout the rotor and caliper and combined with a smaller, square pad provide the maximum "flat" contact patch, eliminating hot spots which cause rotors to warp.

The LS1 calipers are aluminum, pads shaped a little different, and generally leave room for the pads to not have an even contact patch. Therefore, the rotors are developing hot spots, and warping. Take these brakes to the track, and they spread.

Even the C5 calipers do it.

However, for me is the Z06 (same as C5) upgrade.

IrocManiac

Dave the system is in the ball game READ the magazines...its really all we have to go on you can say it feels better all day long and they may actually BE better, but the numbers I've seen show the LT1 system is the better system in full braking situations...I'd like to see some numbers on it from an unbiased source directly comparing the two as DR.ZED said but the problem is you'd get biased results in most cases from whoever did the testing...for example who wants to admit they spent 500 bucks or 1200 bucks or whatever the $$$ amount is only to find that their car did indeed stop slower (take more time and make longer stops) then it did before? The answer is NO ONE...I LOVE the feel of the LS1 brakes as compared to my LT1 brakes there is not really a comparison in the feel...in fact everytime I drive an LS1 car whether its a Vette or an F body the two things that never cease to amaze me are the Motors themselves and the brakes they just feel GREAT...but in all out stopping I have yet to see proof that an LS1s brakes are BETTER...if someone can pull up some legit numbers that'd be great...and I'm not pulling numbers out of my hat I've got a shelf with approximately 400 car magazines from 1989 till now most of which are 1992+ mags...I simply looked up every test I could find.

DR.ZED

I am VERY skeptical of this, however, a well known SOLO racer had a discussion with a colleague of mine, and said indeed the LT1 system performed better than the LS1 system.

Personally, I can see the advantages of the LT1 system with its all iron design for thermal reasons, however, I cannot buy his conclusions UNTIL I see the evidence.

Hey... maybe this IS a case of feeling better, changing our perception of what factually is better.

I'm interested in exploring this further.

Don 97 SS

I hope that you aren't relying on the auto mags for so called "proof". There are so many variables and inconsistencies with auto mag reports. There is no proof of any kind there.

Regarding the fuss you mention above as far as I am concerned, there is no fuss either. You appear to making the fuss by demanding some kind of proof. Frankly, I don't one don't feel a need to prove anything and feel the specs on the brakes speak for themselves. I'm no engineer, but it is clear to me regarding the design benefits of the 98+ brakes over the pre-98 brakes.

Also, I believe you are entitled to your opinion.

dave1w41

Dude, you are getting your information from magazines I get my information from the real world. In the real world, when it comes to brakes bigger is better. No one cares about 2 feet of stopping distance when you can do it 20 times in a row with one system and 40 times with another before you get fade.

DamianLT1

Can't argue with the #'s. I don't car how it feels, if she runs a 13.5 but feels like it should run a 13.1 I have to go with the facts. Someone take it to the track and find out.