jd94z28

Do I need 17" rims for this to work?

IrocManiac

I don't see why you would, many of the LS1 cars came with 16 inch rims...my question is why would you want to upgrade? I've seen a lot of people wanting to do it, and unless you go with the vette brakes I just don't see the point...the LT1 brakes are awesome, extremely fade resistant and they don't warp, something the LS1's are notorious for.

jd94z28

From what I have read here, many people claim the LS1 brakes are superior to the LT1 brakes. I am looking for better braking power without the high cost of aftermarket or the C5 upgrade.

IrocManiac

I have seen a lot of people say that the LS1 brakes are better to, but I honestly haven't seen any FACTS on it yet...from all the magazines I have, the LS1's seem to have more fade, and in some cases stop as fast as the LT1's but not always...(I'm talking LS1 F body's)...I'll pull out some mags and double check for you...

IrocManiac

60-0 braking on LT1's range from 111 feet to 117 feet

60-0 on LS1's range from 116 feet to 124 feet

70-0 braking on LT1's 159ft to 168 ft

70-0 braking on LS1's 168ft to 188ft

I can't find anything showing the LS1's truly have better brakes...

jd94z28

Well if not the LS1 upgrade then what? This pakage from Thunder Racing or would Brembo blanks and Hawk pads be a good upgrade. I don't autocross, but the braking of my Camaro is far below that of my Honda Prelude.

IrocManiac

I bet that camaro will stop just as fast as your prelude from 50 mph + much better braking system.

IrocManiac

Just so you know most of the LT1 stopping distances I found were in the low 160 ft range...the ZO6 has stopping distances of about 155 to 160 ft from 70mph...on the 60-0 side of things, most were around 112 or 113 feet, ZO6 is about 104 or 105 feet.

jd94z28

Are you familiar with the Baer Sport system. It seems to be a pretty good deal.

TheHeadFL

The Baer Sport and Track kit are just a rebadged LS1 Brake kit.

The Baer GT+ kit is basically the C5/Z06 kit.

Personally, having experienced the freight train stopping capabilities of the Wilwood kit, I went with them (though have not yet installed on my OWN car) even though they were pricey.

Don 97 SS

The best (albeit subjective) proof I have regarding the superiority of 98+ front brakes is that I installed them on my car and the catr stops in a much shorter distance. If you comare the design of the 98+ front brake system to the 97- brakes, the 98+ is a much better design with two pistons to one. One piston design is for econo cars and grocery getters. The swept are of the larger 98+ rotor is much larger.

Frankly, I can't believe this is even being discussed and questioned. I can't say I have ever read any posts from folks upgrading to the 98+ that didn't think it made an improvement, even though opinions are very subjective.

IrocManiac

Don I'm not saying they're not "better" but I'm not gonna say they are when all the numbers I can find point otherwise...although I will say that the pads could have a LOT to do with it...the 98+ do have two caliper pistons and larger rotors which is good, but I haven't seen the numbers that prove they're better...I would like to see two tests one before and one after using the same pad compound to see how they perform...I remember reading in 98 or 99 about the braking not being as good as it used to the article attrubited it to pads...but once again, judging from numbers the LT1 cars stop faster...

Don 97 SS

I can appreciate your interest in getting the facts before developing an opinion. I don't have solid evidence that the 98+ brakes stop better, although I haven't taken the time to look. You mention some data that compare the two brakes. Where does that come from? IMHO, I would highly question those results and investigate any variances that could explain the results (i.e. different cars at different tracks being tested in different conditions).

Do you know anyone in your area that made the upgrade that you could ask and check stopping differences? Again, based on my experience my car stops dramatically better than before the upgrade. I know of several buds in my region that have done this mod with similar outcome.

IrocManiac

I got that info from CHP, MT, C&D and R&T...they are mags and one thing I do know is the differences you listed, could be the surface the test was done on, and a number of other variables...Things like brake fade are worse on LS1 cars from what I've read and that is one thing that surface really wouldn't particularly matter on...more than likely the pads as I mentioned earlier...I know one guy locally thats done one, and for normal braking he said the car seemed better, and we did a couple hard braking runs, but we never measured and I couldn't tell a difference under hard braking...hell when you're eyes are being plastered to the windshield in either case its hard to tell a difference...and once again, I'm not saying the LS1's brakes aren't better, I just haven't seen any subjective evidence that TRULY shows they are better....

DR.ZED

Brake fade is most always the fault of the pad. A cheaper rotor will aid in this as well.

It appears, there is little doubt the LT1 rotor lasted much longer and resisted warping much better. Saying that, why did it resist warping?

I read an article when Carol Shelby clearly expressed from his extended experience in the 60s developing racing brakes, the only warping came from the uneven application of brake pad to the rotor and the creation of hot spots. It appears that the LT1 caliper is cast iron, one piston and a MUCH smaller (almost twice as small of a LS1 pad), and therefore is as nicely distributed as you can get. Add to that the properties of iron to dissipate the heat, and less movement when it expands in relation to the spindle, hub, caliper bolts etc due to the lack of a large piece of the braking pie (caliper) being close to the same metal composition as the rest of the components that aid it in braking... and I can make a conclusive argument for the long term proper pad application each and every time, no matter the head generated.

Granted, we then fall prey to the fact that INDEED the pad is MUCH smaller and so is the rotor, and now we see where the brakes fall short.

They are also going to heat up MUCH quicker, and kill the pad. One of Shelby's observations was that most brake systems fail because the pad that is used, does not match the demands of the system.

Just stop and go traffic on these smaller brakes with a 3500 lb car, creates MUCH more demand (IMHO) on the brake system than the pad was intended for. Throw into that, some panic stops and you've just killed the effectiveness of the pad, even though there is a LOT of material left.

I am just throwing out initial ideas... feel free to discuss mine.