Loss of torque with shorty headers
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by onebadponcho
What do you based this on? I know of a certain VERY well-known member of this board who is making 800hp with SHORTY headers - and with the knowledge this person has, I'm sure there's reasons besides ground clearance he's running what he has 
. This topic has been beaten to submission many times; why don't you try and do some research before you make a statement like this all right?
. This topic has been beaten to submission many times; why don't you try and do some research before you make a statement like this all right?I'd like to know where I could buy a set just like his are right now. Look at his pictures sometime and tell me what past the flange to the head resembles what came in the box.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by WS Sick
I'd like to know where I could buy a set just like his are right now. Look at his pictures sometime and tell me what past the flange to the head resembles what came in the box.
Last edited by onebadponcho; Apr 11, 2006 at 03:25 PM.
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Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,544
From: Michigan
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Shorties are a waste of time & money, and you wont really see much of a gain either. Go long tube.
I can get my driver's side header in, oh in about 15 minutes.
I can get my passenger side header in, eh maybe an hour now, since I do have to lift one side of the engine a bit.
Big ****in' deal, I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.
My headers don't drag, they don't burn **** up, they're not a pain to install, the plug access is easy.
Oh, I ran with 12's with boltons, and was .007 away from running 11's cam only.
I think I have a "clue" as to what I'm doing with this.
I'm not much of a dyno queen but I gained 20rwhp from just LT's, and that was after installing a Vigi 2800, so figure in whatever loss from that and add it in to the gain of LT's.
I can get my passenger side header in, eh maybe an hour now, since I do have to lift one side of the engine a bit.
Big ****in' deal, I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.
My headers don't drag, they don't burn **** up, they're not a pain to install, the plug access is easy.
Oh, I ran with 12's with boltons, and was .007 away from running 11's cam only.
I think I have a "clue" as to what I'm doing with this.
I'm not much of a dyno queen but I gained 20rwhp from just LT's, and that was after installing a Vigi 2800, so figure in whatever loss from that and add it in to the gain of LT's.
Last edited by "White Knight"; Apr 11, 2006 at 03:31 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by onebadponcho
You are talking about the Injuneer right?....because that's who I was talking about. It looks like he still has the AS&M SHORTIES to me....hmmm....and I guess we all should just throw out all those LT1/LT4/TPIS MiniRam intake manifolds since they're not worth a crap and have such short intake runners.....think about it.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by onebadponcho
Yep, still look like AS&M Shorties
The set of headers used to be on his friends car (the convertible SS that ran low nines high 8s).
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by WS Sick
Lol, ask Injuneer whats been done to them, look at the collectors and the Y. The one side has been completely reworked.
Last edited by onebadponcho; Apr 11, 2006 at 03:51 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
I think you are misunderstanding me.
Yes they are shorty headers (nothing wrong with 1 3/4 inch shorties of the right primary length) But the mod he has done is with the collectors and extending them, collector length plays just as big a part in exhaust tuning as primary length. I didn't intend to start an argument with you.
I recall when he first installed them and he went in depth with what he had done to them. Don't expect to buy a set of AS&Ms and have them perform like his will and do.
The way the exhaust merges together plays probably the biggest role as anything.
Yes they are shorty headers (nothing wrong with 1 3/4 inch shorties of the right primary length) But the mod he has done is with the collectors and extending them, collector length plays just as big a part in exhaust tuning as primary length. I didn't intend to start an argument with you.
I recall when he first installed them and he went in depth with what he had done to them. Don't expect to buy a set of AS&Ms and have them perform like his will and do.
The way the exhaust merges together plays probably the biggest role as anything.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by WS Sick
I think you are misunderstanding me.
Yes they are shorty headers (nothing wrong with 1 3/4 inch shorties of the right primary length) But the mod he has done is with the collectors and extending them, collector length plays just as big a part in exhaust tuning as primary length. I didn't intend to start an argument with you.
I recall when he first installed them and he went in depth with what he had done to them. Don't expect to buy a set of AS&Ms and have them perform like his will and do.
The way the exhaust merges together plays probably the biggest role as anything.
Yes they are shorty headers (nothing wrong with 1 3/4 inch shorties of the right primary length) But the mod he has done is with the collectors and extending them, collector length plays just as big a part in exhaust tuning as primary length. I didn't intend to start an argument with you.
I recall when he first installed them and he went in depth with what he had done to them. Don't expect to buy a set of AS&Ms and have them perform like his will and do.
The way the exhaust merges together plays probably the biggest role as anything.
I'm just fed up with the folks who don't have a clue and say all shorty headers are junk.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by onebadponcho
Yeah, kind of like adding plenum volume to an intake manifold; gotcha dude.
I'm just fed up with the folks who don't have a clue and say all shorty headers are junk.
I'm just fed up with the folks who don't have a clue and say all shorty headers are junk.
It's my fault I cam in and just threw out a statement without explaining what I was talking about.
Probaly why my doctor thinks I need ritalin...lol
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by WS Sick
It's my fault I cam in and just threw out a statement without explaining what I was talking about.
Probaly why my doctor thinks I need ritalin...lol
Probaly why my doctor thinks I need ritalin...lol
To me, the answer to the whole freakin' "long tubes versus short tubes" header debate is like the answer to the question, "What does an 80 year-old woman's p**** taste like?"
....Depends....
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,724
From: Oklahoma where trees are made of wood.
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
But on the subject ( I allways get off subject, back to the ritalin thing) with same primary tube diameter and a 3 inch collector and "y" There will not be much an advantage if at all from one to the other. I do beleive though that mid range torque with the longer tubes would be enhanced over the shorties, but with no measureable restriciton past the collector of the shorty, high end power would be better on it.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 954
From: Shelton, WA
Re: Loss of torque with shorty headers
Originally Posted by WS Sick
But on the subject ( I allways get off subject, back to the ritalin thing) with same primary tube diameter and a 3 inch collector and "y" There will not be much an advantage if at all from one to the other. I do beleive though that mid range torque with the longer tubes would be enhanced over the shorties, but with no measureable restriciton past the collector of the shorty, high end power would be better on it.
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