Lioyd Elliot or Advanced Induction heads?
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 291
From: Easley, SC, USA
Originally posted by kmook
Hey Lloyd, I think I heard from a little bird that 415 was already hit with your stuff...
Hey Lloyd, I think I heard from a little bird that 415 was already hit with your stuff...
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 652
Good post and humble not cocky, nothing I hate worse than cocky vendors cutting each other down, my money goes elsewhere when I see that. I will say this much though, I've talked to very few vendors willing to spend the time during their busy day to explain in detail what is needed for my goals like Lloyd did last week. Very impressed. I order my heads tomorrow and not sure until the morning if they'll be a vendor or AFR but after months of research I have only a couple people I would trust to do my heads and do them right. Lloyd is one of them.
Originally posted by NightTrain66
I would rate Phils heads as slightly better than mine. He has repeatedly put down 400-415 RWHP with his heads and custom cam. His dyno #'s with catalog cams like the XE 230/236 are similar to mine so either the custom cam is making alot of the difference or this cam and the mail order tuning is not allowing the heads to shine as well as they could. It could be either one.
I know how important the cam selection is and that is why I got with a cam grinder to design a few cams for me. I can assure you that you will be better off with a custom cam (mine, Phils or whoevers) over a catalog cam. I am able to do these custom cam and head packages for $1100 to $1600.
I am always learning and the heads that I produce now are better than the heads that I produced 2 months ago. Those were better than the heads that I produced 6 months ago and those were better than the heads thet I produced a year ago, and so on, and so on.
I have spent alot of time increasing the low and mid lift #'s and not worrying about the .550 and .600 lift #'s. Different valve jobs, top cuts, ventuti's diameters, back cuts, shape of the shortside, etc are all things that have been plaed with.
I do not think you can go wrong with either head. I think they are closer than Phil thinks and he probably thinks the opposite. I can assuer you mine are not better thamn his but a true custom cam AND heads for $1100 to $1600 is a great bargain and at that price, EVERUONE is happy and I do not have to claim to be as good.
Lloyd
NightTrain66
I would rate Phils heads as slightly better than mine. He has repeatedly put down 400-415 RWHP with his heads and custom cam. His dyno #'s with catalog cams like the XE 230/236 are similar to mine so either the custom cam is making alot of the difference or this cam and the mail order tuning is not allowing the heads to shine as well as they could. It could be either one.
I know how important the cam selection is and that is why I got with a cam grinder to design a few cams for me. I can assure you that you will be better off with a custom cam (mine, Phils or whoevers) over a catalog cam. I am able to do these custom cam and head packages for $1100 to $1600.
I am always learning and the heads that I produce now are better than the heads that I produced 2 months ago. Those were better than the heads that I produced 6 months ago and those were better than the heads thet I produced a year ago, and so on, and so on.
I have spent alot of time increasing the low and mid lift #'s and not worrying about the .550 and .600 lift #'s. Different valve jobs, top cuts, ventuti's diameters, back cuts, shape of the shortside, etc are all things that have been plaed with.
I do not think you can go wrong with either head. I think they are closer than Phil thinks and he probably thinks the opposite. I can assuer you mine are not better thamn his but a true custom cam AND heads for $1100 to $1600 is a great bargain and at that price, EVERUONE is happy and I do not have to claim to be as good.
Lloyd
NightTrain66
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,645
From: Bridgewater, MA
I made 383rwhp/353rwtq on a tune that I had before Lloyds heads. I definitely left some on the table cuz of the tune. My cam is a mild XE230/236 on 114LSA. My peak power was 6k and my peak torque was at 5.4K. The torque curve is so flat that from 4400 to 5800 I am within 10rwtq of peak!
Phil puts out big numbers for sure, but he makes the numbers using his cams. Until now, Lloyd hasnt been using his own cams. I am interested to see his new combos and #'s.
You guys need to see how Phils numbers compare with Lloyds on off the shelf cams, cuz thats what lloyd has had to work with. These are tell tale signs of how close they are.
Phil puts out big numbers for sure, but he makes the numbers using his cams. Until now, Lloyd hasnt been using his own cams. I am interested to see his new combos and #'s.
You guys need to see how Phils numbers compare with Lloyds on off the shelf cams, cuz thats what lloyd has had to work with. These are tell tale signs of how close they are.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,195
From: Springfield, IL
just an fyi: some of those guys are putting down the same numbers with AI heads and AI's 211 cam, as they are with AI heads and the GM847 "off the shelf" cam!
and if i'm not mistaken there are a couple guys using the CC XE 230/236 and AI heads that are right at 400rw or just shy of it!?
dont remember the user name tho
Steve
and if i'm not mistaken there are a couple guys using the CC XE 230/236 and AI heads that are right at 400rw or just shy of it!?
dont remember the user name tho
Steve
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 537
From: Was TX, now in Portland, OR
I'll probably go with Lloyd's heads because of the price, you just can't beat it. Not to mention, he has spent some time on the phone with me, as well as many emails explaining what would be best for my combo (These are long emails, not 3 sentence emails). For all he knows I could have gotten that info and gone somewhere else. I'm not doggin anyone else, but I've had good experiences w/ Lloyd. When it comes time to do heads, he'll be my guy to go with. Besides, like he said, his heads now are better than the heads two months ago, and it's going to be a few more months before I can afford to do the swap, so I'm excited to see what I'll be getting into!
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 316
From: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Good port guys out there, but have to put one more plug in for lloyd, his customer service and prompt responses to email are almost the best I have experienced in any industry..
I am glad I don't have his heads on the car yet, in goes one of his cams when the tax return comes back!
I am glad I don't have his heads on the car yet, in goes one of his cams when the tax return comes back!
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,509
From: Red Oak Texas
The CM 612 comment was more for an idea about the lift and duration (RPM range) of the cam as well as the abuse on valve train parts.
The CM 612's are BAD *** single springs and are an AWESOME buy at $80 but I would not use these on cam with .over .575 lift lift or over 6300 RPM. double spring would be MUCH better with these factors but were not needed with this set up. It jsut lets people know about the requires spring pressure for the cam and the RPM that it needs to make power (or more importantly DOESN'T need). This is also an indication of what kinda low and mid range power it is making.
As for the other questions that are a lil more direct, I can answer in e-mail but since I am not a sponsor here, I do not wanna step on any sponsors (or moderators) toes.
The CM 612's are BAD *** single springs and are an AWESOME buy at $80 but I would not use these on cam with .over .575 lift lift or over 6300 RPM. double spring would be MUCH better with these factors but were not needed with this set up. It jsut lets people know about the requires spring pressure for the cam and the RPM that it needs to make power (or more importantly DOESN'T need). This is also an indication of what kinda low and mid range power it is making.
As for the other questions that are a lil more direct, I can answer in e-mail but since I am not a sponsor here, I do not wanna step on any sponsors (or moderators) toes.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,509
From: Red Oak Texas
Kmook,
If it is the same car that you are talking about, I heard the same thing. Not bad for the tuning (or lack of) done so far.
Also heard of another at 409 with an A4, 3800 stall and 9" rear. A/F was at 11.4 from 4500 RPM up. A lil more tuning should get it there.
Like eveyone else, they think there is more in it but until it actually dynoes it, it isn't so.
Hopefully the 400-415 RWHP #'s are a theme. Maybe more when the bigger cams get in some cars.
Lloyd
NightTrain66
If it is the same car that you are talking about, I heard the same thing. Not bad for the tuning (or lack of) done so far.
Also heard of another at 409 with an A4, 3800 stall and 9" rear. A/F was at 11.4 from 4500 RPM up. A lil more tuning should get it there.
Like eveyone else, they think there is more in it but until it actually dynoes it, it isn't so.
Hopefully the 400-415 RWHP #'s are a theme. Maybe more when the bigger cams get in some cars.
Lloyd
NightTrain66
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
From: Kansas City, Mo
asdf
I am also going to have to say Lloyd is an awesome guy to do business with. He responds to every email I have sent him, within a couple hours. He has even called me long distance to talk about my setup. I am getting my Heads and Intake ported/polished by him and then Joe Overton is making the custom grind cam designed for my heads for the package total of $1500. The price was $1100 for my heads/intake and then $400 for the custom grind cam that will give my new 383 power from 2500rpm to 6200rpm in an even torque curve. I am looking to get around 400-420hp out of my setup. Mods being purchased/worked on are in the sig. Should have it running by late April or early May and I will post my dyno numbers asap. Thanks again Lloyd for being so kick ***!
-Ryan
-Ryan
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,070
From: newton, kansas, USA
I went with phil for 2 reasons.
#1. I've always heard on this board if you want the best heads you can get to go with AI heads. I've never seen or heard of a complaint on work quality and it seems like most people agree Phils heads maybe better even if they are more expensive.
#2. When i was talking to phil i was asking if there was anything that i could do to cut the cost on the heads since i was on a college budget. Phil said i would have to use the stuff he wanted to or he didn't want to do it cause it wouldn't make for as good of a finished product and be as reliable. That meant a lot cause he could of used some less superior parts to just get my business and not worry about how well the heads held up. I love my heads and i would go to AI time and time again. Phil you want to start working on cast iron ford heads i got lots of 428cj heads and 351C heads that could use some porting.
#1. I've always heard on this board if you want the best heads you can get to go with AI heads. I've never seen or heard of a complaint on work quality and it seems like most people agree Phils heads maybe better even if they are more expensive.
#2. When i was talking to phil i was asking if there was anything that i could do to cut the cost on the heads since i was on a college budget. Phil said i would have to use the stuff he wanted to or he didn't want to do it cause it wouldn't make for as good of a finished product and be as reliable. That meant a lot cause he could of used some less superior parts to just get my business and not worry about how well the heads held up. I love my heads and i would go to AI time and time again. Phil you want to start working on cast iron ford heads i got lots of 428cj heads and 351C heads that could use some porting.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,626
From: Baylor University - TX
If I recall correctly, Lloyd has said that Phil is a bit more skilled than he is and because of it you may see a 5-7 hp difference between his heads (Lloyds) and Phil's heads...but is that small increase worth the extra hundreds? That part is up to you to decide...
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 61
From: dallas tx
Well we'll see soon on the dyno how bad *** Lloyd is!! He did my heads and i put in my order for a cam today!! So ya'll best watch out in Dallas cuz i'll be bustin *** all over town!!! Lloyd is a kool kat i've known him for a couple years... I even stop by the bat cave where he does his top secret work sometimes... and i'm always amazed at how much sh*t he knows! He's on top of his game as far as i'm concerned!!!
