LT1 Based Engine Tech 1993-1997 LT1/LT4 Engine Related

Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

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Old Jun 11, 2006 | 09:59 PM
  #16  
mkent's Avatar
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Originally Posted by seawolf06
If it's the VATS, your security light should be on, unless for some reason it's burnt out. That would definitely explain no fuel and no spark.
Yes, I had been keeping an eye on that. It comes on for a few seconds when I initially turn the key into the accessory position, but then the light goes out. I never really paid much attention to the how it [the security light] operated before so I'm not sure if it is normal or not.

I am dumbfounded with tihs car right now.
Old Jun 11, 2006 | 10:07 PM
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Where in Ohio are you located again? If I remember correctly you live near my job, so I might be able to swing over and take a look.

-Dustin-
Old Jun 11, 2006 | 10:50 PM
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

I live on the west side of Columbus. However, the car is back at Dad's garage in Coshocton county.
Old Jun 12, 2006 | 03:43 PM
  #19  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

You can check the fuel pump relay by bypassing the relay, applying +12V to the fuel pump prime connector, near the PCM. Shoebox has a photo of the prime connector on his website.

The "power" side of the fuel pump relay gets its power from a fuse. On the 95 model, its fuse #5 on the instrument panel fuse box. Check your owner's manual to see which one it is on your 97.

The "signal" to activate the fuel pump relay comes from the PCM. The PCM will enable the pump to run when the key is turned on. If the PCM does not "see" the low resolution pulse pattern from the Opti, is then shuts the fuel pump and the injectors down. Does you pump not run for even the first 2 seconds after you turn the key to "on"? If not, the PCM also looks at the VATS module to determine if it should turn on the fuel pump.
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 03:33 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

did you check the wires that go to the distributor?i had the same thing happen to mine. the motor would crank but not start, fuel pump would prime but did not stay on i had no spark. all that and it was the wiring harness going to the opti spark.

Last edited by CAMAROz95; Jun 13, 2006 at 03:40 AM.
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 08:46 AM
  #21  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Originally Posted by CAMAROz95
did you check the wires that go to the distributor?i had the same thing happen to mine. the motor would crank but not start, fuel pump would prime but did not stay on i had no spark. all that and it was the wiring harness going to the opti spark.
I just figured it out last night. I had a tricky fuse that didn't look blown but it apparently was.
Last week I had pulled all my fuses out and looked at them closely. Apparently the fuse I didn't notice was blown is the fuse I tried to put back in my PCM IGN circuit. So if the engine turns over but has no spark or fuel pump prime then apparently it could be your PCM IGN fuse.

However, fixing this only gets me so far. The IGN fuse under the hood blows everytime I go WOT now! I tried changing the coil and ICM and it still blows it. I'm not sure what to do now...
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 09:22 AM
  #22  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Look in your Owner's Manual. It should have a list of all the devices on the fuse. That might help you track down the item that's causing it to blow. If there isn't a detailed list, look at Shoebox's wiring diagrams to find all the devices on that particular fuse. There might be some differences between his 95 and your 97, but at least it could give you some idea of what's pulling power off the fuse. A set of 97 electrical drawing would be better, but not sure where you could find them online.
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 09:44 AM
  #23  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Check your electrical harnesses for damaged wires.

I don't know what's up with your fuel pump. Might be a seperate issue all together. A friend of mine had the same problem with his ignition fuse blowing. He ran a 20 amp fuse instead I think. It wouldn't blow AS OFTEN but would still blow.

Finally, while detailing his engine bay, we decided to replace all of the plastic wire looms that the wires travel in since his were very old and melted in some spots.

We found a kink in one of his white wires going to the ign coil. It was shorting out. Also found a very burnt plug wire that was grounding out on a heat shield.
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 09:51 AM
  #24  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Originally Posted by Injuneer
Look in your Owner's Manual. It should have a list of all the devices on the fuse. That might help you track down the item that's causing it to blow. If there isn't a detailed list, look at Shoebox's wiring diagrams to find all the devices on that particular fuse. There might be some differences between his 95 and your 97, but at least it could give you some idea of what's pulling power off the fuse. A set of 97 electrical drawing would be better, but not sure where you could find them online.
Fred, I'm an aerospace engineer, not an electrical engineer, but if I am making any sense of this picture http://shbox.com/1/95_ign_system_schematic.jpg , it appears in the equation I have:
Optispark
Coil Wire
Coil
Ign. Coil Module (is this the same as the Ignition control module?)
"Ignition Control" (or is this the Ign control module?)
The optispark harness
PCM
ground
Do you know where this ground is located?
The ICM, and coil were replaced last night and did not make a difference. I will try to find a new coil wire, but the car runs smooth at WOT until it shuts off so it may be safe to assume the coil wire is not the problem.
If these things are all that is in the equation, then it must either be the PCM, the ground, or the MSD optispark.
Injuneer, do you think I am correct in this assumption? Now I just need to figure out a way to test these things...
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 01:24 PM
  #25  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
Check your electrical harnesses for damaged wires.

I don't know what's up with your fuel pump. Might be a seperate issue all together. A friend of mine had the same problem with his ignition fuse blowing. He ran a 20 amp fuse instead I think. It wouldn't blow AS OFTEN but would still blow.

Finally, while detailing his engine bay, we decided to replace all of the plastic wire looms that the wires travel in since his were very old and melted in some spots.

We found a kink in one of his white wires going to the ign coil. It was shorting out. Also found a very burnt plug wire that was grounding out on a heat shield.
fuel pump issue is taken care of. It was part of the original no spark/no fuel issue solved by installing a new fuse. Now I just need to figure out why it keeps blowing the fuses. I have tried to check the wiring because I suspect a wire is shorting also. I will look at this some more and also check my plug wires.
I went down to my local GM service center and talked to the manager and a couple mechanics. His initial thinking led him to the MAF. He thought something could be up with it because he had seen cases where cars would do this at WOT if the MAF had issues. He also told me to try a 15 or 20 amp fuse and see if that works. We printed out a schematic and decided that with all the things I've replaced it almost has to come down to either the new opti putting out more juice than needed or some added resistance in one of the wires in the circuit.
Here's the final kicker. I have been driving the car today with the OBD2 in it rather than the OBD1. It has not blew a fuse yet....
I am going to reflash my OBD1 and go out and try WOT some more.

If you have anymore ideas, please keep them coming. If I find anything else, or cure the problem, I will post it on here tonight.

Thanks for everyone's help thus far
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 05:19 PM
  #26  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

OK.... the "IGNITION" fuse is blowing. There is something besides the parts shown in the ignition diagram that is powered off that fuse. You seem to be assuming that the "IGNITION" fuse only deals with the items in the ignition diagram, and that's the point I'm trying to make. That's not all that is on that fuse.

According to the 1997 Owner's Manual, the "IGNITION" fuse under the hood supplies the IC Module and the CKP sensor with power. Have you checked the CKP sensor circuit for excessive current draw?

The CKP is connected to the OBD-II PCM, its not connected to the OBD-I PCM... coincidence????
Old Jun 13, 2006 | 10:35 PM
  #27  
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Re: Installed new MSD opti...still not start!

Originally Posted by Injuneer
OK.... the "IGNITION" fuse is blowing. There is something besides the parts shown in the ignition diagram that is powered off that fuse. You seem to be assuming that the "IGNITION" fuse only deals with the items in the ignition diagram, and that's the point I'm trying to make. That's not all that is on that fuse.

According to the 1997 Owner's Manual, the "IGNITION" fuse under the hood supplies the IC Module and the CKP sensor with power. Have you checked the CKP sensor circuit for excessive current draw?

The CKP is connected to the OBD-II PCM, its not connected to the OBD-I PCM... coincidence????
If the CKP sensor was the issue, it makes sense to me that running with the OBD2 would cause problems, and running with OBD1 would be okay (since OBD2 uses the CKP and not OBD1). I may not have made this very clear--I was blowing the fuses while running the OBD1 yesterday. I saw that CKP on the diagram but the guys at GM thought if that was the issue, the car would not have been running well under any conditions.
This has been a rough 3 weeks with my car but thanks to you guys, once again, I have learned new things about the car.
I am still not positive what my problem is/was but it seems to be solved. Here are the things I did today:
Applied dielectric grease to battery terminals and coil wire
Changed the position of the ICM wire harness
Installed 15amp fuse in ignition in place of 10amp (even though the fuse had not yet blown since doing previous two processes.
Reflashed OBD1 pcm and reinstalled.

Apparently one or more of these things cured my problem for now. I made about 6 full throttle runs through 1,2 and half of 3rd gears. Only time will tell if it's going to blow the fuse again.

What I learned from this experience is:
Changing the optispark is not that bad, it just takes patience.
It does not take long at all once you've done it once or twice in the same week!
Don't overlook the obvious while diagnosing your car.
I learned a little bit about reading a schematic. I can see those things are invaluable if you're chasing an electrical gremlin.

Injuneer, did you gain the majority of your LT1 knowledge through trouble shooting your own car or do you just have the service manual memorized from looking up other people's problems?
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