I Hate Gm Engineers
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,208
From: Tulsa
Originally posted by chasmanz28
explain to me how you can put a top on wrong
explain to me how you can put a top on wrong
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 538
From: valencia,california,u.s.a.
Ya,but isn't nice when everything works well,and the car runs strong?Well,gotta go now,just broke my parking brake cable .(Pull the parking brake up,and BANG),no more parking brake.Blahaaaa.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 49
From: sd, ca
Ok so the plugs and wires fixed my stumble.
GM engineers are redeemed. (sorta)
15) My ttops are fine on level ground. But if my car is pointed downhill they create a nice little waterfall in my car. Yes I put them on right.
16) If you open the trunk it will dump water on your freshly washed and dried car. Just annoying.
17) The oil pressure sensor
Again, cheap little plastic connector likes to drip oil. Makes my driveway look like a dalmation.
off to work .....at least I didn't have to burn another sick day fixing my car..........
GM engineers are redeemed. (sorta)
15) My ttops are fine on level ground. But if my car is pointed downhill they create a nice little waterfall in my car. Yes I put them on right.
16) If you open the trunk it will dump water on your freshly washed and dried car. Just annoying.
17) The oil pressure sensor
Again, cheap little plastic connector likes to drip oil. Makes my driveway look like a dalmation.
off to work .....at least I didn't have to burn another sick day fixing my car..........
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
Expediency and obsolence. It's the American way.
There is no doubt that our cars and others could be made much better. The technology is there. The idea, however is to build and sell you a car that you will want to get rid of in a couple years and buy another one. Its a throw away thing with the American automobile.
If you check in consumer's guide on reliability, etc. you will see the very same lingo used every year for the camaro. They don't even bother changing one word. If you go by their recommendations you'd never buy a camaro.
Anyone that understands even the minumum of how an internal combution engine operates would have redesigned the heads on the lt1 long before the Ls1. And for the placement of the Opti and water pump (duh).
The old axiom "you get what you pay for" is right on point with the F-Body Lt1. But on the other hand, you can spend $100 grand plus and get a car that will last you a life time (but then again, if they didn't cost so much the company would be out of business in one year.
Go figure.
There is no doubt that our cars and others could be made much better. The technology is there. The idea, however is to build and sell you a car that you will want to get rid of in a couple years and buy another one. Its a throw away thing with the American automobile.
If you check in consumer's guide on reliability, etc. you will see the very same lingo used every year for the camaro. They don't even bother changing one word. If you go by their recommendations you'd never buy a camaro.
Anyone that understands even the minumum of how an internal combution engine operates would have redesigned the heads on the lt1 long before the Ls1. And for the placement of the Opti and water pump (duh).
The old axiom "you get what you pay for" is right on point with the F-Body Lt1. But on the other hand, you can spend $100 grand plus and get a car that will last you a life time (but then again, if they didn't cost so much the company would be out of business in one year.
Go figure.
lol
Registered User
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 31
From: Bay Area, CA
Sorry, don't even agree with the majority...
Maybe I'm just antagonistic, maybe I've owned the car too long, but I just don't happen to agree with more than a few of the issues...
2. Plugs and Wires
Get headers, my plug access improved, you'll need them when you want to go faster anyway. The design tradeoff was for simple, cheap, quiet. Blame the bean-counters.
3. Window motors
Fix your voltage drop. I did some basic electrical checkup stuff, and they are running better now than they ever had before.
4. Rear of intake
Mine has never had a problem. Yes, on purchase rear main oil seal was leaking. Fixed under warranty years ago. No intake leak. Maybe because EGR pipe bent to avoid headers, dunno.
5. Transmission hump
Never thought about it, and I can't picture the car now, but isn't it for the cats/heat shield?
6. Fuel pump
Whine, yes. Die because of low gas? Don't run it to quarter tank? Dunno, never had a problem with it.
7. CAGS
Not emissions, CAFE and fuel economy.
8. 10 Bolt
What's the problem again? Lighter and weaker and quieter and cheaper. Design tradeoff, you (and I) just happen to disagree. Bleam the bean counters again.
Sorry, not trying to be a big PITA or anythiing, only responded because I happen to disagree with half of the most basic of all complaints.
Dunno about the "not working on my car" either. Maybe I smile nice or tip well, but nobody but Chevy has ever refused to work on my car.
2. Plugs and Wires
Get headers, my plug access improved, you'll need them when you want to go faster anyway. The design tradeoff was for simple, cheap, quiet. Blame the bean-counters.
3. Window motors
Fix your voltage drop. I did some basic electrical checkup stuff, and they are running better now than they ever had before.
4. Rear of intake
Mine has never had a problem. Yes, on purchase rear main oil seal was leaking. Fixed under warranty years ago. No intake leak. Maybe because EGR pipe bent to avoid headers, dunno.
5. Transmission hump
Never thought about it, and I can't picture the car now, but isn't it for the cats/heat shield?
6. Fuel pump
Whine, yes. Die because of low gas? Don't run it to quarter tank? Dunno, never had a problem with it.
7. CAGS
Not emissions, CAFE and fuel economy.
8. 10 Bolt
What's the problem again? Lighter and weaker and quieter and cheaper. Design tradeoff, you (and I) just happen to disagree. Bleam the bean counters again.
Sorry, not trying to be a big PITA or anythiing, only responded because I happen to disagree with half of the most basic of all complaints.
Dunno about the "not working on my car" either. Maybe I smile nice or tip well, but nobody but Chevy has ever refused to work on my car.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
While I'm on roll: How bout those genuine leater seats (we're talking mad cow product) bolsters started showing wear in less than a couple thousand.
With todays (yesterday's) technology they could provide a balanced and ported engine right off the assembly line if they wanted to.
The exhaust manifolds could flow as well as headers, if they wanted them to. And as mentioned, the 10 bolt rears. This car is supposed to be a "muscle car" straight ahead power. It's supposed to be able to take the shock off-line punch, but as many have discovered, the torque of the engine doesn't meet the strength of the rear ends.
Alas, there is much that COULD be done and that's what we do i.e, take a relatively inferior product and try to make it better (the way it should have been done).
One thing we do however, is to stretch the limits of a "machine". Machines break when stretched. Even dragsters with $50,000 powerplants often blow all to hell before the traps no matter how carefully the things are engineered and assembled.JMHO
With todays (yesterday's) technology they could provide a balanced and ported engine right off the assembly line if they wanted to.
The exhaust manifolds could flow as well as headers, if they wanted them to. And as mentioned, the 10 bolt rears. This car is supposed to be a "muscle car" straight ahead power. It's supposed to be able to take the shock off-line punch, but as many have discovered, the torque of the engine doesn't meet the strength of the rear ends.
Alas, there is much that COULD be done and that's what we do i.e, take a relatively inferior product and try to make it better (the way it should have been done).
One thing we do however, is to stretch the limits of a "machine". Machines break when stretched. Even dragsters with $50,000 powerplants often blow all to hell before the traps no matter how carefully the things are engineered and assembled.JMHO
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,499
From: PORTLAND, OR, MULTNOMAH
And...the oil pressure indicator, the pulse monitor and life line of the IC engine. They give it the same level of importance as the seat belt idiot light. Worse. They hide the dam thing damn thing behind the steering wheel.
It should be in a different color, accurate and accompanied by an audible when low oil pressue is sensed. Many a boogered bottom could be avoided or the damange minimized with such a simple improvement.
And the air intake. It should be designed to bring in fresh, un heat-soaked air with a straight in route to the TB intake.
Ok. I'm done for awhile. Just needed to vent a little. What with $45000 into a poor man's vette with a useless back seat, I feel entitled.
Of course, I could have bought a neon.
It should be in a different color, accurate and accompanied by an audible when low oil pressue is sensed. Many a boogered bottom could be avoided or the damange minimized with such a simple improvement.
And the air intake. It should be designed to bring in fresh, un heat-soaked air with a straight in route to the TB intake.
Ok. I'm done for awhile. Just needed to vent a little. What with $45000 into a poor man's vette with a useless back seat, I feel entitled.
Of course, I could have bought a neon.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 184
From: 6500 MSL
I owned an 86 Trans Am when I was in college 10 years ago. I loved that thing to death, babied it, and it ran great. I sold it after I tried to hot rod it without knowing very much, spent like 10 large on it and rendered it undrivable. It sat for about 8 years till I became disgusted and gave up. Now, after a Saab turbo, Toyota Celica, and ram pickup, I've got me a "new" 96 T/A, that I love even more than my first one, and it has all the goodies on it.
There is no comparing the performance of this car to its older brother.
To me it is the difficult nature of these engines that in part makes them "fun." And you have to look at the upside--they are reliable when compared to many other muscular machines, as well as pretty dang efficient. You could drop $350,000 on a Ferrari and have a lot of stock hp, have it in the shop more often than you're driving it, and get 8 mpg on a good day to boot. *And* have nothing to mod since there's no aftermarket for Ferrari parts. (granted I'm not trying to rag on Ferraris, but they do have a reputation for being high-maintenance!) Or how about an early Viper with 12 mpg, slightly better, but with some bolts ons and a cam in your GM you can both outperform that same Viper *and* drive around with 25 mpg with 120k miles on your engine! With our cars, GM has given us a lot of extra room to "augment" the engine--something I think they knew we would be doing from the start--it's the legacy of the basic chevy smallblock, of which our engines are the final incarnation. Heck even the gen III LS1 has an aluminum bottom end that many serious tuners replace with an iron one when they decide to make more than 600hp or so. Despite their drawbacks, our cars are in many ways "over-engineered" to meet the demands of backyard performance tuners. Plus they come complete with nearly 50 years of experience engineering the mouse motor!
It sounds like I'm a fanboy, but I do recognize the faults of our cars. They can be a real PITA to work on, but the learning curve is not so steep. And where else can you find such good gains for the money in modability? Plunk down 8 grand for an LT1 car, invest another 5 grand in well-chosen mods, and you've got something that can keep up with a new ZO6 vette! And with such a durbable bottom end that it maintains its performance throughout the life of the engine? (I've noticed from reading many of the long-term trials of high revving, tightly clearanced foreign cars that the performance of many seems to go *down* in the first 50k miles, whereas the "loose" clearances of our engines often result in *more* hp over time.)
Sorry if this rambles but I love my car Didn't Han Solo love the Millenium Falcon even though it broke down all the time and they spent as much time fixing it as going to warp speed?
There is no comparing the performance of this car to its older brother.
To me it is the difficult nature of these engines that in part makes them "fun." And you have to look at the upside--they are reliable when compared to many other muscular machines, as well as pretty dang efficient. You could drop $350,000 on a Ferrari and have a lot of stock hp, have it in the shop more often than you're driving it, and get 8 mpg on a good day to boot. *And* have nothing to mod since there's no aftermarket for Ferrari parts. (granted I'm not trying to rag on Ferraris, but they do have a reputation for being high-maintenance!) Or how about an early Viper with 12 mpg, slightly better, but with some bolts ons and a cam in your GM you can both outperform that same Viper *and* drive around with 25 mpg with 120k miles on your engine! With our cars, GM has given us a lot of extra room to "augment" the engine--something I think they knew we would be doing from the start--it's the legacy of the basic chevy smallblock, of which our engines are the final incarnation. Heck even the gen III LS1 has an aluminum bottom end that many serious tuners replace with an iron one when they decide to make more than 600hp or so. Despite their drawbacks, our cars are in many ways "over-engineered" to meet the demands of backyard performance tuners. Plus they come complete with nearly 50 years of experience engineering the mouse motor!
It sounds like I'm a fanboy, but I do recognize the faults of our cars. They can be a real PITA to work on, but the learning curve is not so steep. And where else can you find such good gains for the money in modability? Plunk down 8 grand for an LT1 car, invest another 5 grand in well-chosen mods, and you've got something that can keep up with a new ZO6 vette! And with such a durbable bottom end that it maintains its performance throughout the life of the engine? (I've noticed from reading many of the long-term trials of high revving, tightly clearanced foreign cars that the performance of many seems to go *down* in the first 50k miles, whereas the "loose" clearances of our engines often result in *more* hp over time.)
Sorry if this rambles but I love my car
Didn't Han Solo love the Millenium Falcon even though it broke down all the time and they spent as much time fixing it as going to warp speed?
Last edited by Kuma; Jul 10, 2003 at 11:48 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,967
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Wow, haha. I don't know what to say... you guys that are complaining basically got screwed. Only major thing on my car was one water pump but that's my fault.
Other than that only stupid stuff like gay leather seats and little plastic switches and light bulbs and stuff have broke. I admit the design is very ****ty but it looks clean, and goes really fast, which is exactly what it was built to do.
Seriously, I have not seen a car that can get sideways or light em up as beautifully as mine. Also, I have never seen a car that could make my 2 15"s sound the way they do. And think of it this way, you do plugs and wires on this car and you can do them on anything. That's how I think about it... I have had my share of uncontrolable bursts of anger when I'm working on it and I have ended throwing stuff around my garage but hey it's all part of the game baby, deal with it. There's nothing better than a perfectly running car.
Other than that only stupid stuff like gay leather seats and little plastic switches and light bulbs and stuff have broke. I admit the design is very ****ty but it looks clean, and goes really fast, which is exactly what it was built to do.
Seriously, I have not seen a car that can get sideways or light em up as beautifully as mine. Also, I have never seen a car that could make my 2 15"s sound the way they do. And think of it this way, you do plugs and wires on this car and you can do them on anything. That's how I think about it... I have had my share of uncontrolable bursts of anger when I'm working on it and I have ended throwing stuff around my garage but hey it's all part of the game baby, deal with it. There's nothing better than a perfectly running car.
