FYI:

My wife's 91 Accord has a bleed screw.

Her dad's 3.2CL does as well.

One of my friends has an 00 Ranger and one has a 90 F-150. Neither have bleed screws but the service manuals recommend that you fill the coolant system with the cap off and engine running to "bleed" the system.

 

I won't argue that some quality issues are great with the f-body but they are more than livable for what I get in trade. I've been more than pleased with quality, in fact I was expecting much worse out of my Pontiac than I would expect.

I don't feel the intake manifold leak is a design problem. If it is than why didn't the first several decades of SBC have such a big problem with it? They are different materils, etc., however using a gasket meant even closer tolerances of cylinder head to block to intake manifold clearances. Why go through the added cost and complexity (and problems when rebuilding, milling, etc.) when the proper sealant is plenty adequate??? Put the proper sealant on there using a proper install and you flat out shouldn't have a problem... had this been done from the factory it wouldn't be an issue. Overengineering is just as bad, even worse, than poor engineering.

"Transporting midgets" Since I don't place my feet 8 inches from the edge of the seat the hump has never bothered me, and never bothered me from a visual standpoint either. I ride shotgun in many f-bodies and many people ride in mine and the only place I've heard complaints was from the internet. Of course that's not to say it isn't a problem because obviously it does bother people, just not locally I guess

I've been in imports with fuel pump whine as well. Keep in mind although that larger vehicles with larger engines have larger fuel demands fed by larger fuel pumps that are more likely to be noticable. Performance cars have less insulation as well (in this case rightfully so, IMO) I guess I haven't heard one that is so obnoxious I guess. I do hear everything in a car a little too well I might add. The only real complaint might be early C5 Corvettes with noisy fuel pumps right behind the passenger compartment. Regardless you still shouldn't run the gas tank low on ANY car.

As a matter of fact I would imagine that ttops are an engineering nightmare, especially with age. It becomes a whole chassis engineering excercise. Of the older ttops I've seen that do leak (with good gaskets in place and older cars), most only have a problem in the pressure wash and even then it's only a few drips. Ttops are a nightmare to integrate into any platform and most engineers would shy away from them, but enthusiast customers want them for the experience. Most customers want everything for nothing though. Enthusiast engineers are what every car company needs for a platform of this type

I'm not going to defend the gas gauge and I'm sure the engineers wouldn't either. If engineers had more pull at GM I'm sure dumbass things like this wouldn't be an issue, of course cars would have other problems if the inmates ran the asylum.

I wouldn't say your tranny is normal but it isn't all that uncommon. Not everyone's does it however, mine doesn't If you are to blame someone, don't blame GM; Borg & Warner or Tremec is the manufacturer. I wouldn't blame them either however as the T56 is one of the best trannies. It does have a habit of making it's resonances known with some gear chatter on some cars but its brute strength more than makes up for it. The Corvette, Viper, and Mustang Cobra also had no other option to hold so much power for so little. Too bad they didn't have the T5 option huh, or since these are performance cars maybe an old Muncie rock crusher?

Most cooling systems have a bleeding procedure and many have bleed screws to help (good engineering there!) In the case of the reverse cooled LT1 the bleeding procedure is just more important. Cracking open a couple of valves after all my hard work is a petty price to pay for the benefits.... good engineering.

Clear overlow tank wouldn't work as it's underneath the batter and couldn't be seen. This is good for packaging. The only problem you can complain about here is that it often isn't strong enough to retain the battery on top of it.

I didn't meaure the fuel milage stock but with a cam and supporting mods I got 28 mpg, mostly highway. Hell I got 24 mpg on a long trip more recently including in town, cannonball run style 'cruise' (I was having fun with the C5 BEHIND me), incomplete PCM tune, and 80 MPH freeway (did I mention 4.11 gears?). While I don't run the tank completey dry (bad for the fuel pump) I will record as precise as possible the miles travelled to fuel added after several hundred miles a few times (and I don't add extra to the tank once the pump shuts off as it can overflow into the EVAP system ) I also work on my brother's '02 WS6 M6 often enough which has no problems getting ~30 mpg. Have the right combination of parts and tuning or keep it stock and drive like a sane person on public roads and you will have a noticable increase

Engineering resources are not GM's problems, the politcs involved within the gigantic corporation is. In fact I think if GM could utilize its engineers to their fullest they'd have some of the best cars in the world (and many of their cars have made leaps and bounds in the recent years). I'm amazed at the performance per dollar they delivered with the 4th gens, especially consdering the time period they were developed. If anything I'm pissed at GM for purposely sabotaging the f-body program, yet thankful for what the engineers could provide for the last hurrah even under fire from the "man" (front suspension, better interiors, fantastic drivetrains, more comfort, stiff chassis, safety, etc.)

This does feel good This may or may not be aimed at you but most of the complaints I hear are from people who've modded their cars. Aftermarket parts are often not up to par and from what I've seen many people are simply backyard mechanics that have made their own mistakes while going through the learning process.... myself included

 

greenz28: I guess you learn something new every day

And for all you other people saying my car has problems because I don't take care of it: you're wrong.

I take great care of my vehicles, but unfortunately I am not the original owner. How was I supposed to know that the previous owner was lazy and only changed 7 plugs?? Or put in the wrong thermostat. I've never taken this car to redline. It sees WOT maybe once a week. Never been to the track. (because it never is running 100%) But it still breaks down on me. Hopefully now most of the problems are fixed and I can actually drive the car.

Ok enough explaining, back to complaining.

(I forgot what number I was on)

26) Trunk release in the glove box

Why why why. I want to pop the trunk, not unleash all of my parking tickets. Again, I just want an easy to reach button. That is all.

27) Heavy, unresponsive steering wheel.

The steering wheel in my thirdgen was much better. Actually the whole steering "feel" was better. The large heavy wheel makes it feel like I'm driving a boat.

28) BOSE stereo

Bose must have bribed someone at GM to get them to use their 1 ohm joke of a sound system. I mean, its decent, but if you want to "upgrade" you have to replace everything! The cd player works great, however.

29) vents that only adjust sideways

No wonder they put the LT1 scanmaster in there.

30) clutch hydraulics

Not much "feel" to it, although I guess thats the norm for hydraulic clutches. IMO, mechanical linkage felt way better.

31) EGR, AIR

They need to find a way to eliminate these extras. Especially for us in California who do not have the liberty to yank them out. They bruise knuckles, dirty the engine bay, and causes the sinking feeling inducing idoit light. Do non GM cars have these components??...I don't really know much about them.

32) Intake manifold

Beside the leaks, it soaks up heat like a sponge. Whats the point of a rubber intake elbow if you have a giant heat sink of a manifold. Granted, the air may not be in there that long, but i'm sure it has some effect.

33) center console
Not an engineers fault, just plain cheapness.

34) brakes

warpage prone rotors

35) fuel tank again

I hate when the fuel tank "burps" when Im pumping gas. Spilling gas over my paint and on the ground. Should have included a pressure relief hole near the nozzle.

for people tired of my whining: don't read this thread anymore

 

Ok...I have finally solved your problem...




































































SELL YOUR DAMN CAR.

there you go...PROBLEMS solved.

 

Wait....I thought it was GM's engineers that were hte cause of your woes?

 

I might have said this already, but I love my car!

 

Ahh, just like I said. The previous owner is probably more at fault for many of your problems. I know people that even trash Mercedes but the f-bodies really do tend to take a beating!

Yep that is stupid, one of the reasons I bought a Firebird not a Camaro.

Compared to a third gen the steering feel at low speeds just doesn't compare. I will say that at high speeds I prefer the 4th over 3rd though.

I've never really like BOSE anything yet LOTS of cars use them for good advertising Consumers as a whole are just plain stupid and a name sells probably. Oh well, you should have gotten the Pontiac.... no adapters here

You should've gotten the Pontiac

Welcome to modern cars, they usually have things like power steering, power brakes, and transmission synchros as well! Driving cars with mechanical everything is a downright chore. Hop in your car and go for a cruise and than take a '57 Chevy for a spin and tell me which is a better road car Hydraulic clutch is self adjusting, less maintenance=good engineering

This is not a GM only thing, it's an EPA and CARB thing. These days many cars are getting rid of them buy using the proper overlap in cam profiles and placing cats closer to the exhaust ports. Clean emissions is a good thing for the masses.

WTF, the intake manifold is fantastic! It's good enough that the aftermarket couldn't improve on it and in some cases copied it (miniram comes to mind) It'd be nice to have plastic for weight savings but I'd hardly call this bad engineering. This is a ridiculous complaint IMO.

Yep, fairly cheap on the 'Birds as well but I've never had any problems with it. Upgrade to the '97+ console for improvement.

For the time the LT1 brakes were actually very good. It seems the people that have problems with warped rotors have it with all their cars, cars fault or owners fault? LS1 braking systems are pretty damn good as well but have much more complaints about warpage. I hear people complain of warped rotors for just about all cars but I don't have problems. As a whole the only complaint I might have is LT1 brakes are prone to fade when pushed to the car's limits.... this shouldn't be a problem for most people.

I've never had any kind of problem with this You can't simply vent all fumes into the atmosphere, the EPA frowns on this just a little bit. Is your Camaro the only car you have that burps fuel? I just don't see how you're doing this.

No comment

 

some of these were solved by Pontiac in the FB (trunk button, vents, etc). IMO Pontiac tends to do a better job with their cars than most GM makers. I see Pontiac as taking what GM hands them and trying to make a decent car that people want out of it, although mostly this is limited to interior and exterior differences.

Just me and my overinflated view of Pontiac

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned anything about the wimpy-wimpy-wimpy hinges on the HEFTY-HEFTY-HEFTY driver and passenger door. After a while, the door tends to sag and rub the bottom of the door sill due to the inadequent size of the hinges.

 

That problem isn't nearly as bad as it was on the 3rd gens...I haven't had it yet on mine and neither have any of my friends with 4th gens... best way to prevent it is to not let peaple lean on the door...

 

Oh yeah...forgot about the super sucky interior lighting! Why didn't the designers give the rear hatch area a dedicated light of it's own, and place the overhead dome light right in the center of the roof closer to the cars occupants?

 

Some people just like to complain...I love my Z .Not one problem in 72K miles..Go buy yourself a honda,I bet you will still find something to whine about.

 

the thing that really bothers me is the plug/wire routing setup................it really wouldnt be that hard to have designed some slightly better headers that allow easy plug access for all plugs, and OVC wires stock.................and dont even get me started on how these geniuses routed the passenger side wires through the goddamn maze of pulleys........that guy needs to be hit in the face with a tackhammer because hes a douche.

btw.....i just finished rerouting plug wires........sure it can be done in a decent amout of time (took me less than an hour, because my manifolds were already removed).........but thats not the issue......the fact that they could be changed in 15 minutes with some design foresight.......but instead are engineered MUCH more difficult than it could be, pisses me off.

 

My .04

I love my Z28. Has 90,000 miles. Windows roll up a bit slow but are still origional. Opti has not gone out (knocking on wood) but also have never steam cleaned engine or had water pump go out (knock, knock). I do have the infamous oil leak and get a few drops of tranny fluid. But all in all it has been good. I only hear rattling when I turn around to look at how far back the stangs are.

My old 91 honda civic si. Bought it with 78,000. Distributor went out, bought used one only to have it go out again ($450). Bought new one from dealer (600). Normal maintainence was easy though. Put in cam, chip, exhaust, filter 15.3 best e.t.
Bye bye clutch when normal red line is 6500 and you take it to 8250 shifting without lifting off the gas (300). Now at 90,000 the tranny went or 4th gear to be exact (1000). Clutch again due to crappy job (300). Then went the engine (1200). Then car was broken into locks never worked again properly. Window kept coming of track (40) (40) (40).

Sold it to cousin with 125,000 Bye bye tranny again, bye bye engine again, bye bye clutch again.

My Z28 now has the crown for most reliable car I ever had.

All cars have their problems.

 

buttercup:

the "burping" happens on fuel pumps which have a thicker fuel spout. It does not allow the air to escape. If the fuel spout is thin, then the air can "get around it." Some cars have a little hole next to the fuel filler opening to vent vapors, but they still vent the vapors back into the gas pump, not the air. I think most gas pumps are required to have some sort of vapor recovery system. (at least here in ca)

You're right, the intake is pretty good air flow wise.

The brakes have never been a problem for me, but I've heard many others complain about them. (I was just stretching my list)

35) lack of cabin pressure relief when all windows are rolled up

If I try to shut my door with the window rolled up all the way, it won't completely close because there is no pressure relief. I don't really enjoy slamming my doors shut and stressing the already prone to leakage seals. Usually this is not a problem as my passenger side window runs out of steam before it goes all the way up.

joess97: Not one problem in 72k? your car Check back at 100k

Rearpl8tsinsite: do you take your Z28 to 8000 rpms? I have a feeling you beat on that honda little more than the Z.