Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by HardcoreRM125
It doesnt sound like either of them are very good mechanics if they cant diagnose a head gasket, a distributor, vacuum leak, or clogged cat.
You would be a ****in retard to get rid of a 45000 mile LT1.
Your diagnoses all blur together, but this is what I would do ...
Check your antifreeze and oil first. Its cheap...
Spray starting fluid into the intake manifold and crank it. If its starts to run better than it does with out it, you could assume it is getting ok spark. Pull the coil wire, stick a piece of metal in it, and crank the motor to see if it arcs ... Then youll know if your getting spark or not.
Check your fuel pressure. Replace the fuel filter cause it probly needs it anyways. The fuel filter thats on it could be from the last motor and have 100K miles on it now. Do a leak down test on it.
Did you try spraying brake cleaner, or starting fluid around the intake gasket to see if there is a leak anywhere? Really you could spray anything that would burn, even WD40 would work ...
If your dads a mechanic, theres no reason you couldnt diagnose it ...
If its a 96 motor, its OBDII, throw it on a scanner and see if the rear O2's are reading normal ... If not then id be checking the cat ...
And even if it is a head gasket, if your dad is a mechanic, it shouldnt cost you more than a few hundred dollars assuming the heads needed machined down or something. It hsould be a one dayer if he is a mechanic. Chill out, and check things one step ata time.
You would be a ****in retard to get rid of a 45000 mile LT1.
Your diagnoses all blur together, but this is what I would do ...
Check your antifreeze and oil first. Its cheap...
Spray starting fluid into the intake manifold and crank it. If its starts to run better than it does with out it, you could assume it is getting ok spark. Pull the coil wire, stick a piece of metal in it, and crank the motor to see if it arcs ... Then youll know if your getting spark or not.
Check your fuel pressure. Replace the fuel filter cause it probly needs it anyways. The fuel filter thats on it could be from the last motor and have 100K miles on it now. Do a leak down test on it.
Did you try spraying brake cleaner, or starting fluid around the intake gasket to see if there is a leak anywhere? Really you could spray anything that would burn, even WD40 would work ...
If your dads a mechanic, theres no reason you couldnt diagnose it ...
If its a 96 motor, its OBDII, throw it on a scanner and see if the rear O2's are reading normal ... If not then id be checking the cat ...
And even if it is a head gasket, if your dad is a mechanic, it shouldnt cost you more than a few hundred dollars assuming the heads needed machined down or something. It hsould be a one dayer if he is a mechanic. Chill out, and check things one step ata time.
sweet post, i've realized that when things seem to go wrong w/ cars or anything with a motor its best to look at the overall picture and try to narrow things down to fix the problem, unless your loaded it never really pays to just through it to a mechanic and say fix it, but to each his own i have always tried to fix everything i possibly could good lucK!
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
The bizarre part about all this is that it idles perfectly fine. I put the car up on the lift and noticed the water pump looks like its going. I ordered a new water pump and I'm putting it in tomorrow...
Very possible the "liquid" you see "boling" out of the block is coolant streaming from the WP onto the block.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Update with pics
The car wouldn't run because it was out of gas, I had a qaurter tank of gas and I didn't realize it burned all that gas in 15 miles. The car is getting fuel and spark. Idles normal, under load its bogged severly just like I said, and wont rev past 3k seems like its not getting enough fuel or air. Won't rev past 3 k in nuetral or park either. O2 sensors are normal and computer is not throwing codes. Here are some pics I took to help illustrate what I am talking about.
The car itself, just wanted to show you why I'm so driven to keep it. It's almost perfect.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/car.jpg
Where the light is pointing is where you can see the "wetness" where the intake manifold meets the block You can't see it in the pick, I'm just pointing to where it can be seen from.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak2.jpg
Again pointing to an area of "wetness"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak1.jpg
Underneath the car the oil leak, it's coming from the oil sending unit. This was not a problem before... this all happened at once. The car was moved around a bit thats why there are multiple spots. Sorry about lighting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/oil.jpg
Didn't bother replacing the water pump after realizing there was a leak from the intake manifold leaking ON TOP of the water pump.
The car wouldn't run because it was out of gas, I had a qaurter tank of gas and I didn't realize it burned all that gas in 15 miles. The car is getting fuel and spark. Idles normal, under load its bogged severly just like I said, and wont rev past 3k seems like its not getting enough fuel or air. Won't rev past 3 k in nuetral or park either. O2 sensors are normal and computer is not throwing codes. Here are some pics I took to help illustrate what I am talking about.
The car itself, just wanted to show you why I'm so driven to keep it. It's almost perfect.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/car.jpg
Where the light is pointing is where you can see the "wetness" where the intake manifold meets the block You can't see it in the pick, I'm just pointing to where it can be seen from.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak2.jpg
Again pointing to an area of "wetness"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak1.jpg
Underneath the car the oil leak, it's coming from the oil sending unit. This was not a problem before... this all happened at once. The car was moved around a bit thats why there are multiple spots. Sorry about lighting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/oil.jpg
Originally Posted by SS RRR
Has the water pump been installed yet? It's reall frustrating to help you when you won't be more clear on what you're posting. How do you know the WP was "going"? Did you see coolant out of the weep hole? If so that could EASILY be your hesitation problem...
Very possible the "liquid" you see "boling" out of the block is coolant streaming from the WP onto the block.
Very possible the "liquid" you see "boling" out of the block is coolant streaming from the WP onto the block.
Last edited by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty; Nov 12, 2005 at 02:06 PM.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
Yea the SES light is good, comes on before I crank it. I mean the car starts normally, When I rev it in park or nuetral it seems fine. Only when it's in gear does it do this.
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
Idles normal, under load its bogged severly just like I said, and wont rev past 3k seems like its not getting enough fuel or air. Won't rev past 3 k in nuetral or park either.
Didn't bother replacing the water pump after realizing there was a leak from the intake manifold leaking ON TOP of the water pump.
Didn't bother replacing the water pump after realizing there was a leak from the intake manifold leaking ON TOP of the water pump.
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
My mechanic, my father, and I decided we aren't going to dig into the engine and fix something that we can't be sure is wrong.
Didn't see one mention of pulling plugs and looking at them.
Why wouldn't you pull the intake off
You know it leaks. You know it doesn't run. You can't hurt an engine that doesn't run by taking it apart. The hardest part of the job for someone like you is getting the fuel and return lines off.You keep "F"ing around with a leaking intake gasket and starting the engine and before you know it, it fills a cylinder with coolant and bends a rod.
Quit belly aching and take the intake off.
Last edited by Guest47904; Nov 12, 2005 at 06:59 PM.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
Where the light is pointing is where you can see the "wetness" where the intake manifold meets the block You can't see it in the pick, I'm just pointing to where it can be seen from.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak2.jpg
Again pointing to an area of "wetness"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak2.jpg
Again pointing to an area of "wetness"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...vain/leak1.jpg
The steam pipe coming from the back of the cylinder heads and then is routed on the passenger side of the manifold has a winged hose clamp that fastens a rubber hose which then routes either to the throttle body or to the radiator depending on if the coolant by-pass mod has been done.
That winged hose clamp can get weak or can get crushed underneath the alt. bracket. The other possibility is the hose clamp which fastens the heater hose to the water pump. That too could be weak and leaking... or either or both hoses are cracked and leaking.
There is no coolant that flows through the manifold. The only places it could leak like that is if it's an exterior problem... either the steam pipe, WP or hose related.
It's extremely possible that coolant is soaking the opti causing your problems.
Underneath the car the oil leak, it's coming from the oil sending unit. This was not a problem before... this all happened at once. The car was moved around a bit thats why there are multiple spots. Sorry about lighting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/oil.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...invain/oil.jpg
I still have yet to read whether or not a leakdown test has been done since your mechanic has already decided it's a blown head gasket. If you haven't done one it would be a good idea to do so.
Last edited by SS RRR; Nov 12, 2005 at 07:20 PM.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
The LT1s are known to have bad oil leak problems on the back of the intake. whatever genius ran the EGR pipe right into the back of the aluminum intake should get a darwin award (i know, real easy for me to say this after it's happened). The egr pipe flows the exhaust through the egr valve into the intake, over a long drive the intake will heat up enough and expand to loosen the rtv sealant at the bottom of the intake that seals it to the block, oil splashes up from the crank, whala, oil leak down the back bellhousing from hell, do a search, you'll find a lot of info on it. http://shbox.com/1/egr1.jpg
did your dad or your mechanic open the radiator cap while the car was running to see if the coolant was "boiling" or see if they could smell exhaust fumes coming out of the radiator?
and like SS RRR mentioned, there is a coolant line that runs from the back of the heads, up the pass side of the block next to the valve cover, goes from metal to rubber up to the throttle body, passes through the throttle body, comes out and goes to the side tank of the radiator. look here: http://shbox.com/1/tb_bypass.jpg http://shbox.com/1/95-97_hoses.jpg
and again, if it's a intake leak, $1500.. you're dad needs to find a new mechanic. maybe he misplaced his decimal point, I wouldn't pay even $150, but oh well.
(thanks to Rob, shoebox, for hosting all the pics and a very informative website)
did your dad or your mechanic open the radiator cap while the car was running to see if the coolant was "boiling" or see if they could smell exhaust fumes coming out of the radiator?
and like SS RRR mentioned, there is a coolant line that runs from the back of the heads, up the pass side of the block next to the valve cover, goes from metal to rubber up to the throttle body, passes through the throttle body, comes out and goes to the side tank of the radiator. look here: http://shbox.com/1/tb_bypass.jpg http://shbox.com/1/95-97_hoses.jpg
and again, if it's a intake leak, $1500.. you're dad needs to find a new mechanic. maybe he misplaced his decimal point, I wouldn't pay even $150, but oh well.
(thanks to Rob, shoebox, for hosting all the pics and a very informative website)
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
If the Opti is getting soaked, and your getting intermittent sparks on cylinders, it would be a gas hog ...
A weak spark is a good indicator of your "bogged" feeling.
Also, one thing to check is the oil pressure sensor on the back of the motor. Mine was cracked in half and sprayed oil everywhere the first time I started my car ( I bought her totaled with 12K on it and rebuilt her
). Check to be sure its threaded in tight all the way. If its not that, like everyone else said, check the back of the intake manifold.
Now onto your main problem.Open the radiater cap, and start the motor ... You'll see the water flowing through the radiator ( Assuming everything is OK ) But, often times, when a head gasket is bad, it will Gurgle, and spray up out kinda like a volcano. It looks neat.
If it passes that test ... Check the oil, its cheap to replace. Let the car sit over night though ... That way any antifreeze will settle to the bottom. ( Actually, you dont have to let it sit ... You can just drain it out after it was run and it will have a milky kind of look to it and smell different, almost sweet ) If it passes this test ...
Get a compression guage, check that you are getting adequate compression on all the cylinders. There shouldnt be more than about a 20% fluctuation between cylinders ... However, given the mileage of this motor, I would be suprised if it varied even that much ... If it passes that ... You can just about role out a head gasket.
Are you sure the antifreeze isnt spraying out of the Throttle body onto the intake manifold? There are no coolant passages/lines inside the intake manifold. You need to check, with absolute certainty, where this leak is coming from. If that means changing 25$'s worth of hoses, do it.
If it soaked your opti, that WILL cause it to misfire/run like dick for a while. Check the plugs and see if their fouled/wet ... If not, I would still check that the cylinders are each getting a steady rythmic spark. You could do this with a timing light.
If its NOT getting a clean spark, you need to first off absolutely make sure the coolant stops getting on it, or it will cause you a big headache that you dont want to screw with. Well, its not that bad, it jsut sucks to do it when it could be prevented ... I would doubt that the Opti would be SHOT from a little coolant, however, I know they will make it misfire and run like **** and make no power ... Let it dry out ... Its vented since its from a 96 which is good. But maybe letting it dry out in the sun would help some too and save you from getting a 200$ part or whatever it is for a new opti now? ...
Also ... I know its a pain in the *** when you dont have money ( Im only 19 too ... And I know how bad it sucks to bust your nuts at a loser job to get a little money to pay for something awesome, AND go to college full time ) But bite the bullet on this one ... If it was mine, Id be getting a new fuel filter, changing the oil, running some quality injector cleaner through it ( Like Lucas ) , getting a new air filter ( Or if you can, jsut get a CAI now, and pay it off when you can, cause its stupid to buy a new filter for 15$ and then get a cold air intake 3 weeks later once its running right and you dont owe anything to anyone ) and for sure, new plugs and wires.
O yea, check your fuel pressure, I think its supposed to be 42 PSI on a stock LT1 at idle.
Put that thing back on your scanner and tell us what some of the sensors are reading ... MAP, MAF, O2's, Knock Sensor ( If its f'ing up and pulling timing for no reason, it would bog and be innefficient on fuel ) TPS, anything that seems odd. check the BPW too ... Check all of this stuff at idle, and under load while your driving it if you can. O and if it comes up with split BLM's, thats not uncommon on an LT1, but list the values, if their severly different, something it could help to pint to something that is wrong.
A weak spark is a good indicator of your "bogged" feeling.
Also, one thing to check is the oil pressure sensor on the back of the motor. Mine was cracked in half and sprayed oil everywhere the first time I started my car ( I bought her totaled with 12K on it and rebuilt her
). Check to be sure its threaded in tight all the way. If its not that, like everyone else said, check the back of the intake manifold.Now onto your main problem.Open the radiater cap, and start the motor ... You'll see the water flowing through the radiator ( Assuming everything is OK ) But, often times, when a head gasket is bad, it will Gurgle, and spray up out kinda like a volcano. It looks neat.
If it passes that test ... Check the oil, its cheap to replace. Let the car sit over night though ... That way any antifreeze will settle to the bottom. ( Actually, you dont have to let it sit ... You can just drain it out after it was run and it will have a milky kind of look to it and smell different, almost sweet ) If it passes this test ...
Get a compression guage, check that you are getting adequate compression on all the cylinders. There shouldnt be more than about a 20% fluctuation between cylinders ... However, given the mileage of this motor, I would be suprised if it varied even that much ... If it passes that ... You can just about role out a head gasket.
Are you sure the antifreeze isnt spraying out of the Throttle body onto the intake manifold? There are no coolant passages/lines inside the intake manifold. You need to check, with absolute certainty, where this leak is coming from. If that means changing 25$'s worth of hoses, do it.
If it soaked your opti, that WILL cause it to misfire/run like dick for a while. Check the plugs and see if their fouled/wet ... If not, I would still check that the cylinders are each getting a steady rythmic spark. You could do this with a timing light.
If its NOT getting a clean spark, you need to first off absolutely make sure the coolant stops getting on it, or it will cause you a big headache that you dont want to screw with. Well, its not that bad, it jsut sucks to do it when it could be prevented ... I would doubt that the Opti would be SHOT from a little coolant, however, I know they will make it misfire and run like **** and make no power ... Let it dry out ... Its vented since its from a 96 which is good. But maybe letting it dry out in the sun would help some too and save you from getting a 200$ part or whatever it is for a new opti now? ...
Also ... I know its a pain in the *** when you dont have money ( Im only 19 too ... And I know how bad it sucks to bust your nuts at a loser job to get a little money to pay for something awesome, AND go to college full time ) But bite the bullet on this one ... If it was mine, Id be getting a new fuel filter, changing the oil, running some quality injector cleaner through it ( Like Lucas ) , getting a new air filter ( Or if you can, jsut get a CAI now, and pay it off when you can, cause its stupid to buy a new filter for 15$ and then get a cold air intake 3 weeks later once its running right and you dont owe anything to anyone ) and for sure, new plugs and wires.
O yea, check your fuel pressure, I think its supposed to be 42 PSI on a stock LT1 at idle.
Put that thing back on your scanner and tell us what some of the sensors are reading ... MAP, MAF, O2's, Knock Sensor ( If its f'ing up and pulling timing for no reason, it would bog and be innefficient on fuel ) TPS, anything that seems odd. check the BPW too ... Check all of this stuff at idle, and under load while your driving it if you can. O and if it comes up with split BLM's, thats not uncommon on an LT1, but list the values, if their severly different, something it could help to pint to something that is wrong.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by speedygonzales
Why wouldn't you pull the intake off
You know it leaks. You know it doesn't run. You can't hurt an engine that doesn't run by taking it apart. The hardest part of the job for someone like you is getting the fuel and return lines off.Quit belly aching and take the intake off.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by Z28LT1_Just_Nasty
I guess that's what I needed to hear to get going in the right direction. I'm taking the intake off this week. I'll keep you guys updated with pics.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by SS RRR
Reads like you want to involve yourself in more work than maybe necessary. Whatever the case, good luck.
Or did I misunderstand your post?
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
Originally Posted by speedygonzales
Please explain what maybe unnecessary about taking off an intake that leaks
Or did I misunderstand your post?
Or did I misunderstand your post?
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
I thought it was jsut barely leaking and he wasnt even sure that it was the intake where the leak was from. Before I rip the intake off, id at least check some of the other **** people have been posting on here.
I know my adveice may not give you concrete evidence to what is wrong, but it CAN point you in the right direction. Dont jump into the wrong thing. Do the simple stuff first.
I know my adveice may not give you concrete evidence to what is wrong, but it CAN point you in the right direction. Dont jump into the wrong thing. Do the simple stuff first.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
UPDATE: $3400 To fix
Front seal and rear seal blown
Intake gasket blown
Timing all out of whack
Leak from oil sending unit
Water pump leak/blown
That was all I can remember right now from the phone call. I think there was more problems. 3400 at dealer rates and still frigging expensive either way time and money wise. Going to try and get the guy that sold me it to gimme my money back but I doubt it's going to happen. Oh well I got screwed.... time to look toward the future.
Front seal and rear seal blown
Intake gasket blown
Timing all out of whack
Leak from oil sending unit
Water pump leak/blown
That was all I can remember right now from the phone call. I think there was more problems. 3400 at dealer rates and still frigging expensive either way time and money wise. Going to try and get the guy that sold me it to gimme my money back but I doubt it's going to happen. Oh well I got screwed.... time to look toward the future.
Re: Hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that....
these seals / gaskets don't just "blow", did they give you a reason for all the carnage? sucks man, it'd be cheaper to get a motor off ebay and toss it in at that rate. lol, there's a sweet 355 for sale for $3k in the classifieds on here.
good luck.
good luck.


