Heads
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,791
From: Upstate New York,USA
Re: Heads
What a timely topic.... As one of you mentioned, "From what I've seen Lloyd's heads flow right up to .600 and usually keep going up from there. "
Lloyd just finished my heads(TFS 23 degrees)-
Got some nice numbers out of them, CFM wise. These are the first LT1 heads I've seen that would flow over 300cfm at any lift. Admittedly, these only go over 300 at some point after .600 lift but they are at 299 CFM AT
.600 lift.
My current turbo cam goes to .571/.566 lift with the 1.6 rockers but the flows have to be a ton better than these unported Canfields I'm currently using. Plus, the static compression will be better. The Canfields have something like 64cc chambers I think, and these TFS have been milled to provide about a 8.8: compression, which is what my pistons were purchased to yield with the stock ported LT1 castings I had.
I also have a ported intake so that should help too.
Here's the flows that Lloyd sent me..
Lift I/E
.200 146/109
.300 206/144
.400 249/179
.500 285/197
.600 299/212
.700 309/223
These TFS heads will go on sometime in late Winter/early Spring.
Can't wait!
Lloyd just finished my heads(TFS 23 degrees)-
Got some nice numbers out of them, CFM wise. These are the first LT1 heads I've seen that would flow over 300cfm at any lift. Admittedly, these only go over 300 at some point after .600 lift but they are at 299 CFM AT
.600 lift.
My current turbo cam goes to .571/.566 lift with the 1.6 rockers but the flows have to be a ton better than these unported Canfields I'm currently using. Plus, the static compression will be better. The Canfields have something like 64cc chambers I think, and these TFS have been milled to provide about a 8.8: compression, which is what my pistons were purchased to yield with the stock ported LT1 castings I had.
I also have a ported intake so that should help too.
Here's the flows that Lloyd sent me..
Lift I/E
.200 146/109
.300 206/144
.400 249/179
.500 285/197
.600 299/212
.700 309/223
These TFS heads will go on sometime in late Winter/early Spring.
Can't wait!
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,509
From: Red Oak Texas
Re: Heads
Hopefully the LS3 owners do not figure out that there 260 CC intake ports are too large for there 370 cubic inch engines. Anby one riding in these cars can verify that they accelerate fine thru the entire RPM range and the head is not too big.
170 cc, 190 cc, 200cc, etc is not what you are after. Runner volume is not what you are after but the runner volume is a bi-product of certain areas being the right size and when you get these things right, you end up with alot more rthan 170 cc.
You are after certain measurements in certain areas on the head to allow the air to travel at a "constant" velocity (not the HIGHEST" velocity).
Valve size will dictate throat diameter, cross section over shortside and at PR pinch in order to allow the air to travel at certain speeds. When you get all of these areas (and the areas between them) mving air at a speed as close as possible to each other, you end up with a great working head.
Start measureing push rod pinches in different heads and look for the effect that is has on the engine (peak HP with x cbic inch, etc) and you will see that when certain areas of the port reach sonic choke, the head is done.
Larger measurements in these areas allow this to be pushed back and happen at a higher RPM and make more power everywhere.
Or just buy your Edelbrock heads with "velocity" and buy you a Hot Cam and then tell everyone your engine is pushing 435 HP. Just don't ever go to the track or put the car on a dyno (or race anyone that is making over 350 RWHP) and you will be happy.
Edelbrock heads alos come with a spring that will limit cam choices to CC 503 or smaller. They do not ahve much seat/open pressure and can't handle much lift either.
If you are wanting any semi aggressive lobes that require 140-145 lbs of seat pressure and over .560 lift you will need to upgrade springs also.
My LE1 heads come with Crane dbl springs that have 150 lbs on the seat, 380 lbs open and can handle .600 lift camns with semi aggressive ramps.
Lloyd
170 cc, 190 cc, 200cc, etc is not what you are after. Runner volume is not what you are after but the runner volume is a bi-product of certain areas being the right size and when you get these things right, you end up with alot more rthan 170 cc.
You are after certain measurements in certain areas on the head to allow the air to travel at a "constant" velocity (not the HIGHEST" velocity).
Valve size will dictate throat diameter, cross section over shortside and at PR pinch in order to allow the air to travel at certain speeds. When you get all of these areas (and the areas between them) mving air at a speed as close as possible to each other, you end up with a great working head.
Start measureing push rod pinches in different heads and look for the effect that is has on the engine (peak HP with x cbic inch, etc) and you will see that when certain areas of the port reach sonic choke, the head is done.
Larger measurements in these areas allow this to be pushed back and happen at a higher RPM and make more power everywhere.
Or just buy your Edelbrock heads with "velocity" and buy you a Hot Cam and then tell everyone your engine is pushing 435 HP. Just don't ever go to the track or put the car on a dyno (or race anyone that is making over 350 RWHP) and you will be happy.
Edelbrock heads alos come with a spring that will limit cam choices to CC 503 or smaller. They do not ahve much seat/open pressure and can't handle much lift either.
If you are wanting any semi aggressive lobes that require 140-145 lbs of seat pressure and over .560 lift you will need to upgrade springs also.
My LE1 heads come with Crane dbl springs that have 150 lbs on the seat, 380 lbs open and can handle .600 lift camns with semi aggressive ramps.
Lloyd
Registered User
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 466
From: Diamondhead, MS
Re: Heads
LT1 Edit was used, so no computer change or any other "tricks" to get that number.
It can be done with the right setup. So what is so bogus about those numbers again?
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 43
Re: Heads
Maybe he already has them, and is just trying to justify it?
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,094
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: Heads
What was so misleading if you CAN achieve those numbers? You get hung up on MORE using what thet did to get those numbers. Over 10 years ago, my dad's Comp TA put down the equivilent numbers on a dynojet...375rwhp. His track times backed up the dyno numbers.
LT1 Edit was used, so no computer change or any other "tricks" to get that number.
It can be done with the right setup. So what is so bogus about those numbers again?
LT1 Edit was used, so no computer change or any other "tricks" to get that number.
It can be done with the right setup. So what is so bogus about those numbers again?
What else was done to the engine - yours and theirs? The "LT4 Conversion" numbers were advertised to leave the impression that if you bought the package, you ended up with 435 flywheel HP in the chassis. If that's not misleading, I'm not sure what is.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with anything. This was all hashed out in the late 90's, and no one took the MORE test seriously, except newbies. The whole post that generated this was seriously flawed. Now we are expected to draw parallels with 302 small blocks running 200cc heads. The whole argument is absurd.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
Re: Heads
Has anyone flowed Edlebrock heads and LE Portted LT1 heads on the same flow bench?
I'm sorry but i don't think Edle lies and thier flow numbers look just fine.
The Performer LT1 heads flow a tiny more than the GM stock LT4 head but with tight 170cc runners and has tight 54cc cambers. Its gott'a be an improvement over even the LT4. And GM marketed a 435hp LT4 head and hot cam kit for the LT1?
Sorry folks but the runner (stock 170cc) don't become a restriction on a 350" until something like 7,000rpm. Common misconception is big ports with big flow numbers make more power everywhere in the power band. In reality they lose velocity and swirl and make less power until high rpm range - rarely used on the street.
Okay lets hear it. I had to put this out after reading time after time Edle heads are trash when i really like their numbers.
I don't see any use for 195cc runner port on a street 350" motor.
cardo
I'm sorry but i don't think Edle lies and thier flow numbers look just fine.The Performer LT1 heads flow a tiny more than the GM stock LT4 head but with tight 170cc runners and has tight 54cc cambers. Its gott'a be an improvement over even the LT4. And GM marketed a 435hp LT4 head and hot cam kit for the LT1?
Sorry folks but the runner (stock 170cc) don't become a restriction on a 350" until something like 7,000rpm. Common misconception is big ports with big flow numbers make more power everywhere in the power band. In reality they lose velocity and swirl and make less power until high rpm range - rarely used on the street.
Okay lets hear it. I had to put this out after reading time after time Edle heads are trash when i really like their numbers.
I don't see any use for 195cc runner port on a street 350" motor.cardo
Do you have any performance data to back up your conclusions?
Can you come up with a single example of the Edelbrock pieces making an LT1 genuinely fast?
The good LT1 head porters can deliver up in the 42-430rwhp range on stock shortblocks with accessories and headers that actually fit a chassis for no more money. The Edelbrock LT4 package is only 406 flywheel gross.
One of the car magazines did a Caprice build with the Edelcrap package and nitrous and was no faster than a cam only Caprice is.
Every time the stuff is tested it paints a clearer picture about just how BAD it is.
I think the ONLY Edelbrock LT1 piece worth considering is the TB and it has some hassles that need to be corrected just for it to work right. The older ones whistle, the newer ones have the IAC open to the plenum, none of the aftermarket ones have the iac bleed drilled. Their exhaust and shocks are junk at least for the b-bodies.
They made some good stuff for OTHER APPLICATIONS and some feeble minded folks blindly believe based on those examples despite EVERY single bit of data for this application being disappointing at best.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 466
From: Diamondhead, MS
Re: Heads
Your Dynojet numbers were "SAE Net". They included the complete intake, the complete exhaust, the complete accessory package for the engine. There is no way those numbers can be compared to a bare engine, on an engine dyno.
What else was done to the engine - yours and theirs? The "LT4 Conversion" numbers were advertised to leave the impression that if you bought the package, you ended up with 435 flywheel HP in the chassis. If that's not misleading, I'm not sure what is.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with anything. This was all hashed out in the late 90's, and no one took the MORE test seriously, except newbies. The whole post that generated this was seriously flawed. Now we are expected to draw parallels with 302 small blocks running 200cc heads. The whole argument is absurd.
What else was done to the engine - yours and theirs? The "LT4 Conversion" numbers were advertised to leave the impression that if you bought the package, you ended up with 435 flywheel HP in the chassis. If that's not misleading, I'm not sure what is.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with anything. This was all hashed out in the late 90's, and no one took the MORE test seriously, except newbies. The whole post that generated this was seriously flawed. Now we are expected to draw parallels with 302 small blocks running 200cc heads. The whole argument is absurd.
Let's see if I remember all the mods he had at that time. LT4 heads/intake, HOT cam, 1.6 crane golds, 160 t-stat, 48mm TB with airfoil, K&N, SLP single cat headers, !cat, SLP 2OTL cat back, 4.10 gears, SLP level II suspension, programmed computer. Can't remember if he had the Mezeire H2O pump at the time or not but it might have been.
Those days are long over as he put the cat on and detuned the car. Only cruises with the car now since they retired.
Sorry for the hijack. There are cars out there that hit the LT4 number that MORE claimed without the "extreme" measures that they did it.
Administrator
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 71,094
From: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Re: Heads
And we've had threads discussing the "LT4 Conversion", and people offered their results, and they did not meet the claims. Apparently your dad did not respond in those threads.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 466
From: Diamondhead, MS
Re: Heads
He stayed pretty much on the mailing list and didn't hit up the forum much, if at all. I doubt you remember but we met you at Enlishtown. Probably for the first SLP day or something like that.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 349
From: Westminster, CA
Re: Heads
may not be cost effective given $ and avail of LT4 heads, but wouldn't working a set of LT4 heads be better than the LT1s? The LT4 design seems to have a straighter shot into the chamber for both exhaust and intake; wouldn't cleaned up LT4s flow better?
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,154
From: VA
Re: Heads
I'm not lying but just quoting what was advertized by the General and they sold plenty of those "kits".
The source and nature of the advertised number has been well documented on this and other LT1 forums for more than a decade. Do some searching and reading before you make a bigger spectacle of yourself.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 349
From: Westminster, CA
Re: Heads
But GM did and still does sell them:
LT4 Hot Cam (12480002) still available for today for $571.65
GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts
LT4 Hot Cam / Head Kit (pk12550630) discontinued but was sold through GM:
GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts
LT4 Hot Cam (12480002) still available for today for $571.65
GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts
LT4 Hot Cam / Head Kit (pk12550630) discontinued but was sold through GM:
GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts
Last edited by pgerst; Dec 29, 2011 at 07:37 PM. Reason: corrected part numbers
Registered User
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 466
From: Diamondhead, MS
Re: Heads
WOW, that kit is outrageously expensive. Especially without the intake. They were always kind of high but that is rediculous.
When I bought the HOT cam kit from Dal, it was something in the $3xx range. The LT4 conversion kit was something like $11-1200, IIRC. Can't remember how much I paid for the timing chain.
When I bought the HOT cam kit from Dal, it was something in the $3xx range. The LT4 conversion kit was something like $11-1200, IIRC. Can't remember how much I paid for the timing chain.
Last edited by RobsWS6; Dec 29, 2011 at 07:59 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 39
From: Las Vegas
Re: Heads
GM did not "publish the numbers". MORE Performance, an independant performance shop, did the testing for their own purposes and published the misleading results in several magazines. GM parts houses, like Pace Performance and Scoggin-Dickey started using the bogus numbers to sell "LT4 Conversion" packages to unsuspecting LT1 owners. This is really ancient history.
But you've already explained to us that a 350 does not need 195cc runners, so why would the 350 LT4 need 195cc runners to make 435 flywheel HP, and why would you use that data to support your arguement for 170cc runners?
Read this, and decide if the HP gaind over a stock LT1, with the Edelbrock heads and cam package is worth $1,350 for the heads and god only knows how much for the cam (the heads/cam/intake package is over $3,000).
Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine
But you've already explained to us that a 350 does not need 195cc runners, so why would the 350 LT4 need 195cc runners to make 435 flywheel HP, and why would you use that data to support your arguement for 170cc runners?
Read this, and decide if the HP gaind over a stock LT1, with the Edelbrock heads and cam package is worth $1,350 for the heads and god only knows how much for the cam (the heads/cam/intake package is over $3,000).
Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine
Ok Inj, i read your article and from what i read it basically support what i posted to a tee though it doesn't have any LT4 head & hot cam dyno numbers. I'm reading just what i wanted/tried to say. Higher port velocity builds more low rpm power for the street. What did i miss?
Here are some magazine articles I found. Not always accurate [210/228 Hotcam?], but they do give some decent information.
Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine
Edelbrock LT1 Cylinder Head, Cam And Intake Manifold Test - GM High-Tech Performance
For anyone wanting to draw their own conclusions.
_____________________________________
A few points I'd like to make.
Edelbrock spent R&D into casting a LT1 intake manifold that performs nearly the same as a factory one. Tests show near zero gains. Lloyd/AI can port the intake to match the heads you get from them, increase plenum volume, and bore the throttle body opening to whatever you need.
Edelbrock 170cc head flow numbers stall then drop after .500" lift. Pretty much any camshaft larger than factory is going to want more airflow in the .500+ range. Not to mention with a LE camshaft, which typically specs to .550-.610", you'd be past where the head flow it's highest mediocre numbers. From what I've seen Lloyd's heads flow right up to .600 and usually keep going up from there. LE1's or other good entry level ported stockers will blow Edelbrocks out of the water.
Edelbrock uses its 5767 valve springs on the LT1 head. They are 120lbs @ 1.800, 320 @ 1.220, and coil bind @ 1.130. Not bad for a mild camshaft, Hotcam or Comp magnum lobes, but they will not handle aggressive hydraulic roller lobes seen on many custom ground camshafts. So the OP would have to buy new valve springs for his Edelbrock heads right out of the box. The Crane 99893's that come on the LE1's will safely handle mild to moderately aggressive camshafts.
Not that magazines are real accurate, but one shows the Edelbrock intake side flowing 16cfm more than a factory LT1 head at .500", the other around 6cfm better. CFM doesn't mean everything, but for $1300 you'd expect more improvement than that.
Value. Lloyds LE1's are $900. Edelbrock's are $1300. Lloyd's intake porting is $200, Edelbrock's is $450. Edelbrock has one LT1 camshaft, Lloyd has anything you want. Heads/intake/camshaft package from Lloyd around $1400, heads/intake/camshaft from Edelbrock around $3000. More power for less money...
Lloyd Elliott or AI can take you where you want to go. They know the LT1 well and have provided proven results. I prefer Lloyd, others like AI. I've seen great things from both over the years. But spending money with Edelbrock, at least in this case, is like giving them a cash reward for poking you in the zero.
Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine
Edelbrock LT1 Cylinder Head, Cam And Intake Manifold Test - GM High-Tech Performance
For anyone wanting to draw their own conclusions.
_____________________________________
A few points I'd like to make.
Edelbrock spent R&D into casting a LT1 intake manifold that performs nearly the same as a factory one. Tests show near zero gains. Lloyd/AI can port the intake to match the heads you get from them, increase plenum volume, and bore the throttle body opening to whatever you need.
Edelbrock 170cc head flow numbers stall then drop after .500" lift. Pretty much any camshaft larger than factory is going to want more airflow in the .500+ range. Not to mention with a LE camshaft, which typically specs to .550-.610", you'd be past where the head flow it's highest mediocre numbers. From what I've seen Lloyd's heads flow right up to .600 and usually keep going up from there. LE1's or other good entry level ported stockers will blow Edelbrocks out of the water.
Edelbrock uses its 5767 valve springs on the LT1 head. They are 120lbs @ 1.800, 320 @ 1.220, and coil bind @ 1.130. Not bad for a mild camshaft, Hotcam or Comp magnum lobes, but they will not handle aggressive hydraulic roller lobes seen on many custom ground camshafts. So the OP would have to buy new valve springs for his Edelbrock heads right out of the box. The Crane 99893's that come on the LE1's will safely handle mild to moderately aggressive camshafts.
Not that magazines are real accurate, but one shows the Edelbrock intake side flowing 16cfm more than a factory LT1 head at .500", the other around 6cfm better. CFM doesn't mean everything, but for $1300 you'd expect more improvement than that.
Value. Lloyds LE1's are $900. Edelbrock's are $1300. Lloyd's intake porting is $200, Edelbrock's is $450. Edelbrock has one LT1 camshaft, Lloyd has anything you want. Heads/intake/camshaft package from Lloyd around $1400, heads/intake/camshaft from Edelbrock around $3000. More power for less money...
Lloyd Elliott or AI can take you where you want to go. They know the LT1 well and have provided proven results. I prefer Lloyd, others like AI. I've seen great things from both over the years. But spending money with Edelbrock, at least in this case, is like giving them a cash reward for poking you in the zero.
What a timely topic.... As one of you mentioned, "From what I've seen Lloyd's heads flow right up to .600 and usually keep going up from there. "
Lloyd just finished my heads(TFS 23 degrees)-
Got some nice numbers out of them, CFM wise. These are the first LT1 heads I've seen that would flow over 300cfm at any lift. Admittedly, these only go over 300 at some point after .600 lift but they are at 299 CFM AT
.600 lift.
My current turbo cam goes to .571/.566 lift with the 1.6 rockers but the flows have to be a ton better than these unported Canfields I'm currently using. Plus, the static compression will be better. The Canfields have something like 64cc chambers I think, and these TFS have been milled to provide about a 8.8: compression, which is what my pistons were purchased to yield with the stock ported LT1 castings I had.
I also have a ported intake so that should help too.
Here's the flows that Lloyd sent me..
Lift I/E
.200 146/109
.300 206/144
.400 249/179
.500 285/197
.600 299/212
.700 309/223
These TFS heads will go on sometime in late Winter/early Spring.
Can't wait!
Lloyd just finished my heads(TFS 23 degrees)-
Got some nice numbers out of them, CFM wise. These are the first LT1 heads I've seen that would flow over 300cfm at any lift. Admittedly, these only go over 300 at some point after .600 lift but they are at 299 CFM AT
.600 lift.
My current turbo cam goes to .571/.566 lift with the 1.6 rockers but the flows have to be a ton better than these unported Canfields I'm currently using. Plus, the static compression will be better. The Canfields have something like 64cc chambers I think, and these TFS have been milled to provide about a 8.8: compression, which is what my pistons were purchased to yield with the stock ported LT1 castings I had.
I also have a ported intake so that should help too.
Here's the flows that Lloyd sent me..
Lift I/E
.200 146/109
.300 206/144
.400 249/179
.500 285/197
.600 299/212
.700 309/223
These TFS heads will go on sometime in late Winter/early Spring.
Can't wait!
Hopefully the LS3 owners do not figure out that there 260 CC intake ports are too large for there 370 cubic inch engines. Anby one riding in these cars can verify that they accelerate fine thru the entire RPM range and the head is not too big.
170 cc, 190 cc, 200cc, etc is not what you are after. Runner volume is not what you are after but the runner volume is a bi-product of certain areas being the right size and when you get these things right, you end up with alot more rthan 170 cc.
You are after certain measurements in certain areas on the head to allow the air to travel at a "constant" velocity (not the HIGHEST" velocity).
Valve size will dictate throat diameter, cross section over shortside and at PR pinch in order to allow the air to travel at certain speeds. When you get all of these areas (and the areas between them) mving air at a speed as close as possible to each other, you end up with a great working head.
Start measureing push rod pinches in different heads and look for the effect that is has on the engine (peak HP with x cbic inch, etc) and you will see that when certain areas of the port reach sonic choke, the head is done.
Larger measurements in these areas allow this to be pushed back and happen at a higher RPM and make more power everywhere.
Or just buy your Edelbrock heads with "velocity" and buy you a Hot Cam and then tell everyone your engine is pushing 435 HP. Just don't ever go to the track or put the car on a dyno (or race anyone that is making over 350 RWHP) and you will be happy.
Edelbrock heads alos come with a spring that will limit cam choices to CC 503 or smaller. They do not ahve much seat/open pressure and can't handle much lift either.
If you are wanting any semi aggressive lobes that require 140-145 lbs of seat pressure and over .560 lift you will need to upgrade springs also.
My LE1 heads come with Crane dbl springs that have 150 lbs on the seat, 380 lbs open and can handle .600 lift camns with semi aggressive ramps.
Lloyd
170 cc, 190 cc, 200cc, etc is not what you are after. Runner volume is not what you are after but the runner volume is a bi-product of certain areas being the right size and when you get these things right, you end up with alot more rthan 170 cc.
You are after certain measurements in certain areas on the head to allow the air to travel at a "constant" velocity (not the HIGHEST" velocity).
Valve size will dictate throat diameter, cross section over shortside and at PR pinch in order to allow the air to travel at certain speeds. When you get all of these areas (and the areas between them) mving air at a speed as close as possible to each other, you end up with a great working head.
Start measureing push rod pinches in different heads and look for the effect that is has on the engine (peak HP with x cbic inch, etc) and you will see that when certain areas of the port reach sonic choke, the head is done.
Larger measurements in these areas allow this to be pushed back and happen at a higher RPM and make more power everywhere.
Or just buy your Edelbrock heads with "velocity" and buy you a Hot Cam and then tell everyone your engine is pushing 435 HP. Just don't ever go to the track or put the car on a dyno (or race anyone that is making over 350 RWHP) and you will be happy.
Edelbrock heads alos come with a spring that will limit cam choices to CC 503 or smaller. They do not ahve much seat/open pressure and can't handle much lift either.
If you are wanting any semi aggressive lobes that require 140-145 lbs of seat pressure and over .560 lift you will need to upgrade springs also.
My LE1 heads come with Crane dbl springs that have 150 lbs on the seat, 380 lbs open and can handle .600 lift camns with semi aggressive ramps.
Lloyd
BTW i was interested in the LE street port that was advertized as maily bowl and chamber work for something like $700 but no longer can find it on the Portworks w/s.
Your Dynojet numbers were "SAE Net". They included the complete intake, the complete exhaust, the complete accessory package for the engine. There is no way those numbers can be compared to a bare engine, on an engine dyno.
What else was done to the engine - yours and theirs? The "LT4 Conversion" numbers were advertised to leave the impression that if you bought the package, you ended up with 435 flywheel HP in the chassis. If that's not misleading, I'm not sure what is.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with anything. This was all hashed out in the late 90's, and no one took the MORE test seriously, except newbies. The whole post that generated this was seriously flawed. Now we are expected to draw parallels with 302 small blocks running 200cc heads. The whole argument is absurd.
What else was done to the engine - yours and theirs? The "LT4 Conversion" numbers were advertised to leave the impression that if you bought the package, you ended up with 435 flywheel HP in the chassis. If that's not misleading, I'm not sure what is.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with anything. This was all hashed out in the late 90's, and no one took the MORE test seriously, except newbies. The whole post that generated this was seriously flawed. Now we are expected to draw parallels with 302 small blocks running 200cc heads. The whole argument is absurd.
Hang in there Rob, truth defends it's self.
Gott'a run for now folks,
cardo0