Nickw059

I'm putting a cam in this winter from Lloyed elliot. I have not decided if i'm going to get a set of heads from him or not. his seem kinda pricey. I found these Edelbrock heads on summit (I'd be changing the springs over to patriot gold springs) but I seem too can't find any reviews on them? Has anybody used these? Would you say there a good deal? or should I just save up and go with LE1??? Any opinoins are very much welcomed.

Heres the link.... Edelbrock 61909 - Edelbrock Performer LT1 Cylinder Heads - Overview - SummitRacing.com

RamAir95TA

Cylinder heads are a perfect case of "you get what you pay for," and those Edelbrocks won't cut the mustard. It's pretty common knowledge that Edelbrock hasn't provided the LT1 community with anything valuable in a very long time.

Lloyd is on the very budget side of cylinder heads for the LT1, so if you think that's too expensive then you aren't (financially) ready to upgrade the heads whatsoever.

Nickw059

Well, I guess i'll be bumping up my budget than! thanks!

Injuneer

Must be this "new math" that I don't understand. The Edelbrocks, which are basically a stock LT1 head, are $660 EACH = $1,320 for the pair. LE2 head porting costs $1,300... WITH Patriot Gold Springs.

What am I missing here?

Nickw059

I didn't see it was each... my bad!

95mysticta

Save up and have Lloyd spec you a h/c package to get the best bang for you buck. Theres nothing worse then buying mismatched parts and costing you good chunk of money and be left disappointed. Do it right the first time either have Lloyd grind you cam for now matched to what heads you plan to buy from him whether they are le1 or le2s and do what you can afford or save up and do it all.

30th97z

Save for the LE1 package! It's WELL worth it & Lloyd is #1 for LT1's!!!!

Bersaglieri

Buying Edelbrock heads and/or intake for a LT1 is like throwing money into the toilet.

That being said Lloyd Elliott is your best bet for power on a budget.

-Dustin-

cardo0

Has anyone flowed Edlebrock heads and LE Portted LT1 heads on the same flow bench? I'm sorry but i don't think Edle lies and thier flow numbers look just fine.
The Performer LT1 heads flow a tiny more than the GM stock LT4 head but with tight 170cc runners and has tight 54cc cambers. Its gott'a be an improvement over even the LT4. And GM marketed a 435hp LT4 head and hot cam kit for the LT1?

Sorry folks but the runner (stock 170cc) don't become a restriction on a 350" until something like 7,000rpm. Common misconception is big ports with big flow numbers make more power everywhere in the power band. In reality they lose velocity and swirl and make less power until high rpm range - rarely used on the street.

Okay lets hear it. I had to put this out after reading time after time Edle heads are trash when i really like their numbers. I don't see any use for 195cc runner port on a street 350" motor.

cardo

Injuneer

Apparently you believe everone's ads. The 435HP claimed for the GM LT4 package was flywheel HP, and measured on an engine dyno, using a bare (no accessories = SAE gross HP, not the SAE net used since the 1970's) engine. The testing was done by MORE Performance. In their widely published article (we're talking 1996 or 97) they failed to mention all the additional mods made to the engine beyond the GM LT4 package, and failed to mention that they programmed the setup using a $3,000+ MoTeC engine management system. The whole thing is pure fiction.

97 6SPEED Z

When I read stuff like what's highlighted above ............. I wonder if LT1 owners realize that stock, "as cast", LS1 "old style" cathederal port heads, average 200cc to 202cc intake port volumes ........ for a 346 cubic inch motor?

cardo0

Okay u can believe that if u want.

So what was the actual hp for the LT4 head and hot cam upgrade? IF someone contested the GM published numbers what are the actual hp numbers? I'm not lying but just quoting what was advertized by the General and they sold plenty of those "kits". Who doesn't fugde thier numbers BTW? If Edlebrock sponsored a dyno comparo my money is the Edle parts would shine. If Loyd E sponsored a dyno comparo then quess who would look best?

But u can't change phyics. Velocity remains higher with the same volume flow on a smaller runner area/diameter. GEN III LS heads are 15 degree vlv angles with a cathedral runner. LT1 is a 23* head. LIke comparing GEN I chevy 18* heads with oringinal 23* heads. The runner has a straigher shot at the vlv/chamber and cylinder filling is improved. U have eliminated significant restriction by the steeper runner angle. LS heads use a 200cc runner on the 4.8l RL4 = just 293 c.i.. Do u want to talk apples or oranges. Try usiing a 200cc runner on a GEN I 302 motor and drive it to work then. Let us know how it drives? But the 4.8l is used in Chevy SUV and light trucks for DD's. Again if u want to compare runners on GEN III motors u need to post in the LS section.

Give Edlebrock their do or post dyno numbers that show different,
cardo

pgerst

IMO porting is where engine building becomes more art than science. For the same price, you get a head with 1000+ prior builds worth of experience in what works for how you use your car or a cleaned up casting based on a fixed amount of R&D. I think if LE was not doing his voodoo, the Edelbrocks might be used more as the "only" option (or if they were much cheaper.)

Injuneer

GM did not "publish the numbers". MORE Performance, an independant performance shop, did the testing for their own purposes and published the misleading results in several magazines. GM parts houses, like Pace Performance and Scoggin-Dickey started using the bogus numbers to sell "LT4 Conversion" packages to unsuspecting LT1 owners. This is really ancient history.

But you've already explained to us that a 350 does not need 195cc runners, so why would the 350 LT4 need 195cc runners to make 435 flywheel HP, and why would you use that data to support your arguement for 170cc runners?

Read this, and decide if the HP gaind over a stock LT1, with the Edelbrock heads and cam package is worth $1,350 for the heads and god only knows how much for the cam (the heads/cam/intake package is over $3,000).

Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine

Bersaglieri

Here are some magazine articles I found. Not always accurate [210/228 Hotcam?], but they do give some decent information.

Edelbrock LT1 Performance Package - Engine Masters Magazine

Edelbrock LT1 Cylinder Head, Cam And Intake Manifold Test - GM High-Tech Performance

For anyone wanting to draw their own conclusions.
_____________________________________

A few points I'd like to make.

Edelbrock spent R&D into casting a LT1 intake manifold that performs nearly the same as a factory one. Tests show near zero gains. Lloyd/AI can port the intake to match the heads you get from them, increase plenum volume, and bore the throttle body opening to whatever you need.

Edelbrock 170cc head flow numbers stall then drop after .500" lift. Pretty much any camshaft larger than factory is going to want more airflow in the .500+ range. Not to mention with a LE camshaft, which typically specs to .550-.610", you'd be past where the head flow it's highest mediocre numbers. From what I've seen Lloyd's heads flow right up to .600 and usually keep going up from there. LE1's or other good entry level ported stockers will blow Edelbrocks out of the water.

Edelbrock uses its 5767 valve springs on the LT1 head. They are 120lbs @ 1.800, 320 @ 1.220, and coil bind @ 1.130. Not bad for a mild camshaft, Hotcam or Comp magnum lobes, but they will not handle aggressive hydraulic roller lobes seen on many custom ground camshafts. So the OP would have to buy new valve springs for his Edelbrock heads right out of the box. The Crane 99893's that come on the LE1's will safely handle mild to moderately aggressive camshafts.

Not that magazines are real accurate, but one shows the Edelbrock intake side flowing 16cfm more than a factory LT1 head at .500", the other around 6cfm better. CFM doesn't mean everything, but for $1300 you'd expect more improvement than that.

Value. Lloyds LE1's are $900. Edelbrock's are $1300. Lloyd's intake porting is $200, Edelbrock's is $450. Edelbrock has one LT1 camshaft, Lloyd has anything you want. Heads/intake/camshaft package from Lloyd around $1400, heads/intake/camshaft from Edelbrock around $3000. More power for less money...

Lloyd Elliott or AI can take you where you want to go. They know the LT1 well and have provided proven results. I prefer Lloyd, others like AI. I've seen great things from both over the years. But spending money with Edelbrock, at least in this case, is like giving them a cash reward for poking you in the zero.