Wow.... 1-bad-z28 Relating the military to engine building that was great! And so true, either you trust the guy or you don't in both cases.

Actually MG and Rich have started a thought that I want to get into on Advanced Tech.... What is prudent for a customer? What do guys really NEED, and what do they want....

Hopefully I will light a fire under my but and get on it in Advanced Tech.

Bret

 

Bret,

This is where the business aspect comes in to play. Do you let the customer "build" his engine while you asssemble it? Do you ask him for a number and a budget and go from there? I think you keep it simple and tactful. Ask what number they want (dyno is the easiest and simplest...you can't make ETs if they can't drive ) and get it. However, you can't do that if you don't have control over the complete engine, and not many Fbody guys have 5-10 grand to splend on a complete longblock. Definitely not when these car are mostly owned by enthusiasts that start slow with bolt ons, work they way to a cam swap, then heads, etc...

Building engines sounds very interesting and fun, but I don't envy your job. I'll stick to lurking .

Ryan

 

Ryan,

Actually my favorite way to go is.... XXX amount of power as a goal, and XXX amount of $$$$$ to do it in. Way to often I get told HOW to build a setup... I really need to be told WHAT you want. An example I'm close to finishing up here in the shop is going to show what really can be done if you go with the XXX power and $$$$$ way.

BTW....

On the other side of this the prudence of what people should have...

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362066

Bret

 

Why is it that so many people expect you to build them a motor with 4 digit HP (x,xxx) & only 3 digit dollars (xxx) & expect a warranty as well?

People either need to ask what they can get for a certain dollar value or ask what it takes to make a certain power level. You cannot work it from both ends.



As for advice here, there a lot of seasoned veterans sharing knowledge. We all learn from it if open minded. Often I read the posts and gain a new perspective on things that I already fully understood. Then I re-read it to figure out what changed. We sometimes disagree, which makes us think harder to understand the other perspective. That is the beauty of evolution.

I used to think how primitive flathead motors were & found humor in their simplicity. Lawn mowers are even going to OHV. It is amazing how many up & coming car guys have never worked on a flathead V8. Has anyone adjusted their cars points lately (most had them until about '74) or even tried to buy a set at a parts store? Now carburetors are slowly going the same way just as point ignitions have. Flat tappet cams... when did GM stop OEM production..... 1990? Now you can buy a Vette with Titanium rods. All this & I'm not even 40 yet.

What was once cutting edge becomes the old way, then eventually the wrong way because someone has figured how to do it better. When you stop questioning the old way, you stop evolving.

Read, learn & keep bettering the sport. Remember when the thought of a 12second 20mpg car was beyond belief.... now it is common.

Mindgame.... good post. Never knew the grease was bad, I only cleaned them within an inch of their lives & re lubed for my own personal satisfaction.

 

LP's post is making an excellent point! Some of the posts here should be "required reading" before posting.

Rich

 

Wow, this thing has turned around for the better... that's definitely good to see. I was almost afraid to open this one.

And you're right Rich, Lonnie is absolutely right!

I think most of my debates have been spurred on by trying to get more information from someone. Yeah, sometimes they get a little irritated but I want to understand where they're coming from. Sometimes they are looking at things from a perspective you never have. Not all people exhibit the same level of eloquence. Some need to be squeezed for $10 so you can get a penny. Works the same way in upper level management... especially when you work with anti-social "geeks" who've spent the majority of their lives behind a computer screen. Socializing? Oh... "You mean a night of the Sims"?

-Mindgame

 

some good info mindgame!! i didnt know about the grease either.





vette40th,

you do realize that this was his fathers thinking, right?

 

Nice!

Rich, MG.... you guys need to make some of this stuff a sticky!

Today things are really different I agree.... I just look at flatheads and cringe... Maybe I'll build one one day. Speaking of lawn mowers the old man and I wanna go lawn tractor pulling, I don't care how much power a flat head Koler can make, I'm doing a OHV motor.

My list of things I want to build first includes longer and cooler motors...

Hell this might be fun to look over, what do you guys want to build?

Big Cube Poncho over 500 cubes.... New All Pontiac Block and Heads with EFI
Vortec 4200 I6 with a sizeable turbo
2.0L+ B18C or Ecotech that's over 300hp NA (that's equal to a 800+hp 355)
440 Cube SBC with SB2's (Mindgames current project) but add a turbo.
310 Cube SBF with a 250 shot for drag racing (yeah it's to a set of rules)
400 Cube Cleveland or Windsor with Kaase Canted Valve heads.
UB's Dominion 32valve LT1
Northstar Rod Motor with a carb on it
540 Cube Small Valve angle street BBC (Big Dukes or something of the sort)

Bret

 

I think the whole argment boils down to who are you willing to listen to and how much you are willing to learn. For me, I know that there are only a select few people that I take their words for truths. Others I will accept through experience and simply that. There are also people who tell you what you need to know so that you can figure it out yourself. It is the whole theory that you can give a man a fish and he can eat for a day, or you can teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Some people on this board (or even customers of builders like Bret) just want to be told what to do. "Heres the cash, this is what I want." "This catback makes xxx HP" That is just fine, nobody is forcing people to learn, they have to want to learn. Others want to know why something does what it does and how to best achieve their goals.

I know that for me, I if somebody tells me that I NEED to do something, then the best place to start is "how does it work".... Take nitrous for example. If somebody tells you that you need a window switch and a cam with more exhaust duration and a wider LSA... you could just go out and buy it, or you could understand why these thigs are needed. Duration to get the gasses out and LSA to avoid reversion and nitrous backfires (I know this is a broad generalization). Now you could also get into port velocities and deisgn a motor with small enough ports to achieve your goals and not even need a "nitrous" cam that would actually benefit from a tighter LSA.

Knowing what does what and how things work is what separates the winners from the losers. Thats why Bret has a job. He knows how a motor works as a system and designs it accordingly. If he just went into the AFR/Comp/Dart/World... catalogs and bought the "best parts" available there would still be more power left to find.

Ok... off the soapbox now...

-Stu