Do strokers REALLY run quicker?
06-01-2003, 03:27 PM
#16
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I never said I was on a budget. 
I just want to put the money where it'll do the most good. I was just asking if anyone could justify (with quarter mile times) spending the extra money and time to build a stroker...
Frank
I just want to put the money where it'll do the most good. I was just asking if anyone could justify (with quarter mile times) spending the extra money and time to build a stroker...Frank
06-01-2003, 03:29 PM
#17
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My stroker is nothing amazing, I'm just showing what kind of improvement it made for me.
Originally I had a 350 w/ a hotcam and couple of bolt ons, I spun a bearing and built a 383. The only thing I added to the 383 was headers, it's still had same cam, etc as the old 350. Here are the best time/mph I ran with both engines, keep in mind I rarely go to the track and have serious traction problems; so take it easy on the criticisim guys 
350 w/ hotcam & bolt-ons
60': 2.19
1/8: 9.0
MPH: 77
383 w/ hotcam, headers & same bolt-ons
60': 2.15
1/8: 8.5
MPH: 87
IMO the power is more in the top end but a good bottom end isn't gonna hurt.
Originally I had a 350 w/ a hotcam and couple of bolt ons, I spun a bearing and built a 383. The only thing I added to the 383 was headers, it's still had same cam, etc as the old 350. Here are the best time/mph I ran with both engines, keep in mind I rarely go to the track and have serious traction problems; so take it easy on the criticisim guys
350 w/ hotcam & bolt-ons
60': 2.19
1/8: 9.0
MPH: 77
383 w/ hotcam, headers & same bolt-ons
60': 2.15
1/8: 8.5
MPH: 87
IMO the power is more in the top end but a good bottom end isn't gonna hurt.
06-01-2003, 03:39 PM
#18
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I'll say a few things that have already been said but may have been missed....
All things considered equal, a 383 will make more torque and just a bit more hp than a 3.48 stroke build.
If you want to make really good hp with a stroker then you need a good deal of head work, enough camshaft to make the rpm where you want your hp peak and you need the rest of the induction system up to snuff as well. Looking at the stock intake upon teardown of my engine.... it needs some work to make hp on a stroker. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of every race engine builder I've talked to about LT1/LT4 intake manifolds.
ET's.... can't say as I haven't had a chance to run mine at the track yet but you shouldn't judge by what I've done with my setup. It's a bit out of the ordinary.
I've run low 10's n/a and mid 9's (nitorus) in other cars with stroker small blocks that were "streetable".
What's your goal anyways? Kinda silly talking about building a 12 second commuter when what someone is really after is a low 10-second car... and we don't really know what you're after????
-Mindgame
All things considered equal, a 383 will make more torque and just a bit more hp than a 3.48 stroke build.
If you want to make really good hp with a stroker then you need a good deal of head work, enough camshaft to make the rpm where you want your hp peak and you need the rest of the induction system up to snuff as well. Looking at the stock intake upon teardown of my engine.... it needs some work to make hp on a stroker. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of every race engine builder I've talked to about LT1/LT4 intake manifolds.
ET's.... can't say as I haven't had a chance to run mine at the track yet but you shouldn't judge by what I've done with my setup. It's a bit out of the ordinary.
I've run low 10's n/a and mid 9's (nitorus) in other cars with stroker small blocks that were "streetable".
What's your goal anyways? Kinda silly talking about building a 12 second commuter when what someone is really after is a low 10-second car... and we don't really know what you're after????
-Mindgame
06-01-2003, 04:04 PM
#19
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My bone stock engine made the car a 12 second commuter. I'm going in the 10's this year with a top end build and nitrous. For anyone interested this is a timeslip from my untouched (never had the valve covers off) '93 LT1 with exhaust manifolds, factory suspension, stock t-body, stock injectors, stock fuel press. regulator:
R/T .725
60' 1.734
330 5.228
1/8 8.167
MPH 83.63
1000 10.691
1/4 12.820
MPH 105.94
R/T .725
60' 1.734
330 5.228
1/8 8.167
MPH 83.63
1000 10.691
1/4 12.820
MPH 105.94
06-01-2003, 04:17 PM
#20
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Ok, so we're basically talking about revs and working within the limits of the stock computer. If you can make both a 355 and a 383 turn 6500-7000 rpm which one is going to make more hp?
If you said 355 then you lose.
The 350 will need to turn 500+ rpm more to make similar power at near the same piston speed. So durability should be near the same all things considered equal... although other components will see more cycles (valvesprings, lifters, etc). Those are the components I worry about the most on a street engine that sees alot of track duty, cause they're usually the ones that break. So, another reason to go with a slightly lower reving stroker.
Your choice... but a 383 or 396 is the easier 10 second street machine engine to build.
-Mindgame
If you said 355 then you lose.
The 350 will need to turn 500+ rpm more to make similar power at near the same piston speed. So durability should be near the same all things considered equal... although other components will see more cycles (valvesprings, lifters, etc). Those are the components I worry about the most on a street engine that sees alot of track duty, cause they're usually the ones that break. So, another reason to go with a slightly lower reving stroker.
Your choice... but a 383 or 396 is the easier 10 second street machine engine to build.
-Mindgame
06-01-2003, 05:23 PM
#21
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Here's my reasoning for going to a 383.
1. Spun a rod bearing, took out the crank (too much worn/ground off the journal). Need new crank
2. Wore a nice gouge in the cylinder wall. Need to be bored = new pistons
3. Spun rod = ****ed. Need new rod, might as well get 6" rods
4. Scat has a kit w/ a Cast 9000 crank, 4340 I-beams, and Forged Probe pistons for $982 through my builder. I could have gotten it cheaper, but I decided to go with him.
5. Took out 2 lifters (flat spots on the roller)
6. Took out the camshaft (Same lobes worn down)
7. Have a friend porting my heads for free
8. Snapped all the studs off my exhaust manifolds, might as well get long tubes
BTW, $300 for clearancing your block? You're getting ripped. My machinist is charging $125. Same with the timing set...I forgot to ask who makes it, but combination motorsports has a true roller chain w/ sprockets for ~$70...
1. Spun a rod bearing, took out the crank (too much worn/ground off the journal). Need new crank
2. Wore a nice gouge in the cylinder wall. Need to be bored = new pistons
3. Spun rod = ****ed. Need new rod, might as well get 6" rods
4. Scat has a kit w/ a Cast 9000 crank, 4340 I-beams, and Forged Probe pistons for $982 through my builder. I could have gotten it cheaper, but I decided to go with him.
5. Took out 2 lifters (flat spots on the roller)
6. Took out the camshaft (Same lobes worn down)
7. Have a friend porting my heads for free
8. Snapped all the studs off my exhaust manifolds, might as well get long tubes
BTW, $300 for clearancing your block? You're getting ripped. My machinist is charging $125. Same with the timing set...I forgot to ask who makes it, but combination motorsports has a true roller chain w/ sprockets for ~$70...
06-01-2003, 06:02 PM
#22
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9.) Need a rebuild after 211,000 miles, and might as well build it stronger than stock.
06-01-2003, 06:33 PM
#23
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Trey and Mindgame have said it well, but just to be sure it's crystal clear.
If you are replacing the crank and pistons (and usually rods) anyway, the "smart money" is completely with the stroker. The added displacement gives you free (almost) horsepower. If you are on a tight budget and are doing a rebuild where you want to re-use the stock crank, you can make a strong running budget motor. But ultimately, if are after big hp, you need to replace the rotating assembly. Once you reach that point there is every reason to do a stroker.
Mine (385) ran 10.66 at 135 last year in my 4,100lb car. It should be a lot faster this year, with a bigger blower and a TH400. If everything were the same, it would probably be a tenth slower as a 355. So it's fast, but not primarily 'cause it's a stroker. It's cubic money, not cubic inches in my case. But go to the track and look at the fast cars. Almost every one of them is a stroker for the reason that have been stated. Those extra cubes are bonus that costs next to nothing.
Rich Krause
If you are replacing the crank and pistons (and usually rods) anyway, the "smart money" is completely with the stroker. The added displacement gives you free (almost) horsepower. If you are on a tight budget and are doing a rebuild where you want to re-use the stock crank, you can make a strong running budget motor. But ultimately, if are after big hp, you need to replace the rotating assembly. Once you reach that point there is every reason to do a stroker.
Mine (385) ran 10.66 at 135 last year in my 4,100lb car. It should be a lot faster this year, with a bigger blower and a TH400. If everything were the same, it would probably be a tenth slower as a 355. So it's fast, but not primarily 'cause it's a stroker. It's cubic money, not cubic inches
in my case. But go to the track and look at the fast cars. Almost every one of them is a stroker for the reason that have been stated. Those extra cubes are bonus that costs next to nothing.Rich Krause
06-01-2003, 06:42 PM
#24
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Go my route...
161.00 dollar CAT crank (3.75 stroke), 184.00 Speed Pro pistons (for the 383), 244.00 "I" beam SCAT rods with capscrews, spin all day long to 6300 rpm's all you need for the street. Forget all that high dollar crap. Eric...
06-01-2003, 07:32 PM
#25
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Bigger is always gonna be better if done right, but its harder to do it right.
I think the top end on should be done first, and if/when the bottom end blows up you can decide if u really need to go bigger with an all forged setup, or a budget saving cast setup.
Just my own $0.02
-Ted
I think the top end on should be done first, and if/when the bottom end blows up you can decide if u really need to go bigger with an all forged setup, or a budget saving cast setup.
Just my own $0.02
-Ted
06-01-2003, 07:32 PM
#26
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Originally posted by rskrause
Trey and Mindgame have said it well, but just to be sure it's crystal clear.
If you are replacing the crank and pistons (and usually rods) anyway, the "smart money" is completely with the stroker. The added displacement gives you free (almost) horsepower. If you are on a tight budget and are doing a rebuild where you want to re-use the stock crank, you can make a strong running budget motor. But ultimately, if are after big hp, you need to replace the rotating assembly. Once you reach that point there is every reason to do a stroker.
Mine (385) ran 10.66 at 135 last year in my 4,100lb car. It should be a lot faster this year, with a bigger blower and a TH400. If everything were the same, it would probably be a tenth slower as a 355. So it's fast, but not primarily 'cause it's a stroker. It's cubic money, not cubic inches in my case. But go to the track and look at the fast cars. Almost every one of them is a stroker for the reason that have been stated. Those extra cubes are bonus that costs next to nothing.
Rich Krause
Trey and Mindgame have said it well, but just to be sure it's crystal clear.
If you are replacing the crank and pistons (and usually rods) anyway, the "smart money" is completely with the stroker. The added displacement gives you free (almost) horsepower. If you are on a tight budget and are doing a rebuild where you want to re-use the stock crank, you can make a strong running budget motor. But ultimately, if are after big hp, you need to replace the rotating assembly. Once you reach that point there is every reason to do a stroker.
Mine (385) ran 10.66 at 135 last year in my 4,100lb car. It should be a lot faster this year, with a bigger blower and a TH400. If everything were the same, it would probably be a tenth slower as a 355. So it's fast, but not primarily 'cause it's a stroker. It's cubic money, not cubic inches
in my case. But go to the track and look at the fast cars. Almost every one of them is a stroker for the reason that have been stated. Those extra cubes are bonus that costs next to nothing.Rich Krause
If you also noticed in my opening post, I asked if anyone has actually broken any factory LT1 cranks or rods. If they don't break, why are all of you spending money to replace them? Sure, If I were looking to run in the low 9's, I'd build everything with 4340 parts, but I'm only looking to go mid 10's. I also stated that I don't mind spending money, but someone has to prove that it's worth it.
Frank
06-01-2003, 07:34 PM
#27
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Budget savings cast setup...
Will be about the same as a 350 buildup. Just look at the prices, these 383 parts can be had for these prices.
Eric
Eric
06-01-2003, 07:34 PM
#28
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BTW nobody has convinced me a stroker is any better than a 350/355 yet. Doesn't anyone have a stroker that runs better than some of the 350's I've listed?
Frank
Frank
06-01-2003, 07:38 PM
#29
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Why not build a 383 instead of a 350?
The parts I listed are probably less than if you buy a 350 rebuild kit (crank, rods and pistons) You could just use the factory rods too, they are good to 500 hp, I went with I beam /capscrews.
06-01-2003, 08:20 PM
#30
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Your power is based on the amount of air fiel mixture you can burn. If you assume volumetric efficiency of 100 % (even though 90% is alot more realistic) The LT-1 draws in 5.7 litres of air/fuel. A 383 draws in 6.3 litres of air fuel do the math. all things the same.. same compression, proper floeing exhaust to let out the additional mixture and proper flowing intake to let it in the resaults are liniar in a N/A motor. The stroker wins. Now you can have a 350 running at 120% volumetric efficiency with either 5 or 6 pouinds of boost or with 10000 dollars worth of N/A tuning and match that stroker without adding cubes. But you can always throw the blower on a stroker too. The other big increase in power from a stroker is from the increased piston speed which causes more torqure by packing the cylanders more at lower RPMs. The reason strokers tend to not gain as much horsepower at higher RPMs is because of the increased rod angle. Increased rod angle is the the measure of the connection rod agle off of the cylander centerline at bottom dead center. Strokers which keep the 5.7 rods have even more rod angle (even more torque ) but less horsepower due to excessive side thrust loading. With a 350 to 355 .030 bore it usually see about 10 HP and 10 torque.
Any stroker with headwork and longtubes should be knocking at the door of 400 torque no problem... If you are doing a rebuild and you are gonna replace the crank, make it a stroker... The only thing that makes a stroker more vulnerable at high rpms is the increased ring flutter due to piston speed. but with the proper rings you can run a stroker to any RPM you can run a 350 to. No times on mine, sorry.
Any stroker with headwork and longtubes should be knocking at the door of 400 torque no problem... If you are doing a rebuild and you are gonna replace the crank, make it a stroker... The only thing that makes a stroker more vulnerable at high rpms is the increased ring flutter due to piston speed. but with the proper rings you can run a stroker to any RPM you can run a 350 to. No times on mine, sorry.