Money, meet mouth

This ought to be very interesting. I'm assuming the only variables on the car are going to the heads? Same valve train, cam, exhaust, gas, cc volume, etc.?

 

Not everything is going to stay the same. Make sure to add the appropriate fuel burned after each run so that the first and last run have the same amount of fuel in the tank.

 

Yeah same exact setup. It will be budget oriented tho, and I feel thats where the comparison should be. i would say thats what the majority of the people on this site are going to duplicate as well. Auto or M6? If i have to Ill sell my mustang to do this if need be.

 

I'm not selling you back your shortblock tho!

 

Lol, no your gonna need that with your setup!! I was thinking tho, after the heads comparison...how appropriate it may be to do the complete package. heads/cam vs. heads/cam. i would say that for an actual heads comparison the Cam should be a off the shelf that both porters would agree to for the time being. What do you guys think?

 

Maybe we should just get together and race. I am sure Lloyd has plenty of satisfied customers arround the country. It shouldn't be that hard to get a cam head car to run at a track. http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448220 is the place to look if you are interested in racing. We can use the scales at the track to standardize the weights, and have the owners of their respective cars fill out a mod list. Let the viewers of the thread (that will be created for the event) decide what they like, or what was fair. This business of getting some guy to take appart his car is unrealistic. There have to be atleast 2 LE guys somewhere close to the track I will rent (still undecided because I need more people to post in the other thread so I can get an idea for where people live or want to meet). Or Lloyd can pay admission and travel to one of his customers to meet us.

 

Nice that these comments are not pier reviewed. AFAIC, if anything were to be controlled by the CNC program, it would be the 'critical' areas. I'd expect 'critical' areas to be consistant from port to port, regardless of core shift. If adjustments are made for core shift, by hand or otherwise, where is the consistancy? It wouldn't be the first time, a CNC ported port got 'wet' when put in use. That is the price paid for casting differrences. Just how much allowance can or should one program into the CNC program? The point being, by CNC or by hand, till you get there you don't know. Porting by hand does not make one immune to this dilemna.

As long as the CNC job does its job and the cutters stay sharp and do not move, the end result will be an EXACT COPY of the head that was copied. This "copied" head would have been HAND PORTED.

That makes it all the more important to insure the hand ported master is finished with care. This, using my standards, would include areas that have little or no effect on flow. When reference is made to precision CNC port machining, I envision CNC as having surfaces/planes that can be straight, true, flat, etc., to be such. In my book, lumpy surfaces have no business being used as a master. Unfortunately, some masters are like that. May make little diff in the actual flow, but it just doesn't have the appearance of a CNC caliber of quality.

Just to be clear here, as a rule, are not your ports larger than a AI port? Doesn't AI stress ports that are smaller (cc wise)for quality of air flow without sacrificing total flow quantity, over that obtained with a larger port? Did I get that right?

Everything needs to be centered on the valve seats and certain castings will only allow you to get certain measurements in certain areas where if the casting is centered and thick, you can open these areas up another .005 to .020. As long as all 8 are equal, that is all that matters.

You speak of 5-20 thou, core shift and 'equal' in the same sentence. Unless I misunderstood you, to me, they are oxymorons. Not aware of many porters that believe they can get that last 5-20 out without knowing, unless they hit water, just how close they can cut it. Unless you meant cut a port with enuf 'headroom' to accomdate the average casting and get the port to port consistancy you strive for.

 

Cocky? A fool would do it for nothing. Maybe LE has his man then.Honestly, I believe you don't at times. Clog up THIS thread? Your attempt at being funny? Normally, when I go to the circus, I take kids along. For this circus, I don't have to, they are already here. BTW, aren't my posts long enuf for you? "Honestly I think...". LOL

I'm pretty sure Lloyd has access to a flow bench considering customers are given flow #'s.

That wasn't the question, or rather you didn't address either of the actual questions. Maybe you missed that part. To me, it sounded as if he is getting his info for porting improvements piecemeal. Your name Lloyd now, or just his personal spokesman?

 

[QUOTE=A/G]Cocky? A fool would do it for nothing. Maybe LE has his man then.QUOTE]

I believe you will have to pardon me for wanting to bury the hatchet and having an interest in the results. I make enough money that i don't need to make money trying to show actual results. If i was to come in asking LE or AI to send me some money, or anything more then the actual plain jane heads I feel that that could lead to biased results. I offered because I have absolutely nothing to gain from these tests. Also I have spent my money on worse things and gotten worse results then either of the ones offered, so its an easy choice for me. You think I am a fool? I am really hurt , what if i was to also offer to purchase the winners heads from them when the tests were finished...then what would i be?

I do believe that you and others would rather try to make them pay for an actual test to be done, which would probably make it even more unlikely that an actual comparison might take place. Its also fairly evident that you think AI will be victorious in this test, your responses in all threads of the like tell the tale. I for one would like to hear your complete opinion, directly from your mouth....rather then you beating around the bush making snide remarks. Tell me who you think will win, and why.

 

Nothing against you personally, but please think B4 posting. IMO, anyone willing to do someone else's research and development, testing, or advertising at his or her own expense, is foolish. You know what 'they' say about a person easily separated from their money. Didn't say the person was not honest, generous, caring, or not attempting to be helpful. As far as being baised is concerned, accepting money for any effort invested doesn't automatically make one dishonest. Business pays for testing as a part of product development, does that mean the info they pay for is biased? It better not be. If they want to twist the facts, they can go to marketing or advertising people after the fact, for that. Goodwrench mechanics are paid by GM dealers. Does that automatically imply they are not honest with the owners of cars they work on? I don't understand your perspective here.

Edit:

"Its also fairly evident that you think AI will be victorious in this test, your responses in all threads of the like tell the tale."

It is fairly evident, you don't have a clue. I'm just far more objective. Unlike you, I do not make rash decisions. Fact is, I don't care either way. What I think doesn't matter as much as what I know. Some let other people do their thinking for them. Others are biased via a purchase or are otherwise just easily impressed. I can afford to not be easily impressed.

 

ENOUGH!!!

Back to the topic....

I currently have a spec stage III clutch and T56. Will the spec III be able to stand up to 600fwhp? Am I going to need to make any upgrades to the tranny? It's currently broke anyway. I'm going to be rebuilding it for sure. I just want to make it reasonably stout for this setup.

 

No, just a happy customer.

I'm done with this thread. I hope to some day race some of the friendlier crowd in this mess.

 

I am also done with this thread, will take to PM's.

 

Your thread is no longer your thread, lol.

I guess you can use the spec 3 till it breaks. I dont like them though. The stage 4 is great. In the tranny use a 3-4 shift fork, rebuild the syncros, and put in billit 3-4 struts. Thats what D&D told me to do, and so I did. I think the billit struts are made by them, so give them a call

 

What is D&D?