Cam Selection Help
11-25-2006, 06:26 PM
#1
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Cam Selection Help
Ok this is going to be my first engine build...
I am putting stock heads and intake on....I havent figured out what pistons i am putting in, but this wont be boosted or juiced so I will either use stockers or http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=154&ptset=A
I am having a hard time figureing out what cam to go with...
I am putting stock heads and intake on....I havent figured out what pistons i am putting in, but this wont be boosted or juiced so I will either use stockers or http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=154&ptset=A
I am having a hard time figureing out what cam to go with...
11-25-2006, 07:10 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,213
bahh, the hotcam is way too small, cc306 or gm 847 for sure, hahaha, yeah it really depends what you are tring to do and how driveable you want it. I have the comp cams cc306 and am traping 114 on the stock heads and lower end. i would say that it drives damn near stock with a 6 speed, those that say otherwise either need to get a tune or get the sand removed from their giner
11-25-2006, 08:19 PM
#7
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im reading up...what about the comp cc503 cam? I plan on doi g a home port and polish on the intake and heads once i get some time. I have a spare intake, and will prolly just do that along and along...send it to get powdercoated while i but a stock set of heads and work on grinding those down....another mod that i plan on doing, which will rpobibly be soon, if not durring the engine swap is a set of L's, i was thinking the Pacesetters and follow that up with a hooker cat back and cutout....Ive already gutted the cat out completely
11-25-2006, 09:08 PM
#8
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,213
well you really should open up the intake and exhaust first before throwing a cam in there, check out my sig, thats on stock heads and bottom end, my cam is bigger than the cc503 and hotcam but i would say it is 100% daily driveable. Also, when you put the cam in remember to budget for things like a new timing chain, electric water pump, roller rockers, valve springs, locks/retiners, pushrods, gaskets ect... it goes from a 250 cam to a 1500 valvetrain swap.
11-25-2006, 10:37 PM
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NY...what a bad place for a nice car
Posts: 2,315
well you really should open up the intake and exhaust first before throwing a cam in there, check out my sig, thats on stock heads and bottom end, my cam is bigger than the cc503 and hotcam but i would say it is 100% daily driveable. Also, when you put the cam in remember to budget for things like a new timing chain, electric water pump, roller rockers, valve springs, locks/retiners, pushrods, gaskets ect... it goes from a 250 cam to a 1500 valvetrain swap.
another grand later and i was set
now then u have to factor in tune and small issues ur car may have afterwards
i kinda like comps XFI grinds but i dont know a whole lot about them
my buddy has comps biggest XFI grind and AI 190cc heads and his car is a beast
11-26-2006, 12:34 AM
#10
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,706
straight from a book about building small block chevy's
"...your favorite hero racer endorses Hu-Mon-Gor cams because 'they really work for me,' and he might even be telling the truth. They work for his application, and unless your application is exactly like his it will not work for you."
that being said, first define your goals.
to be successful, you need to have two simple things: combination and application.If you mismatch stuff, you have performance loss
A substantial number of cam buyers still seek the biggest, meanest, stick that can buy, regardless of their combination and application. Because of this, manufacturers use "advertised durations" which add to the confusion.
Remember that the advertised duration is purely theoretical and it does not usually represent the actual time that the valve is off the seat.
In terms of engine performance, the lobe center angle is significant. A larger angle yields less valve overlap. This permits the cylinders to begin building pressure sooner and that boosts-low-speed torque. Decreasing the angle yields greater valve overlap and moves the torque curve higher in the RPM range, this narrows the engines effective powerband.
For most street applications, select a cam that will build as much torque as possible. Generally you want valve-events that produce a wider love-center angle, decresing valve overlap. One of the advantages of the new high-velocity factory and aftermarket street roller profiles is that you have good idle quality by using wider 112 to 115 lobe centerlines, but you also have a high-RPM boost with more aggressive lobe profiles.
hope this helps some
i'd look at the XFI grinds
something like this would work great
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
"...your favorite hero racer endorses Hu-Mon-Gor cams because 'they really work for me,' and he might even be telling the truth. They work for his application, and unless your application is exactly like his it will not work for you."
that being said, first define your goals.
to be successful, you need to have two simple things: combination and application.If you mismatch stuff, you have performance loss
A substantial number of cam buyers still seek the biggest, meanest, stick that can buy, regardless of their combination and application. Because of this, manufacturers use "advertised durations" which add to the confusion.
Remember that the advertised duration is purely theoretical and it does not usually represent the actual time that the valve is off the seat.
In terms of engine performance, the lobe center angle is significant. A larger angle yields less valve overlap. This permits the cylinders to begin building pressure sooner and that boosts-low-speed torque. Decreasing the angle yields greater valve overlap and moves the torque curve higher in the RPM range, this narrows the engines effective powerband.
For most street applications, select a cam that will build as much torque as possible. Generally you want valve-events that produce a wider love-center angle, decresing valve overlap. One of the advantages of the new high-velocity factory and aftermarket street roller profiles is that you have good idle quality by using wider 112 to 115 lobe centerlines, but you also have a high-RPM boost with more aggressive lobe profiles.
hope this helps some
i'd look at the XFI grinds
something like this would work great
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Last edited by reamo04; 11-26-2006 at 12:38 AM.
11-26-2006, 12:58 AM
#11
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well I am pressed on time becuase the car is at my buddie's shop and he wants to move the car out as soon as possible because of his business, the other sid eof the problem is I am a college student and spend quite a bit of time on campus. Durring December I will probibly have time to open up a set of heads and intake and what not....
As for application...I want to have something beefy, but not insane. I enjoy turns and curves and a little drifting so I dont want somthing too too powerful. I do want to roll out. I have a few firneds and a few haters with ls1s and old school 350's that are built and placed in cars that cant handel the power. So I want something that can hang with any of them. If I can mod my lt1 to roll out faster than lets say a 2002 z28/trans am I will be very very pleased. that is all i really want, as I will be building up suspension like crazy so i can go have some hairpin fun. I also dont want to loose the drivability and have it to where I hate getting in the car. I want it to be a fun sports car that can Hang with anything (within reason) that I put it next to on the strip/street/xcross.....im jstu going well rounded. For me, if I wanted to go super fast in a straight line, I would get a plane or attatch a rocket engine to a wheelchair....i want power that is managable....
i hope that clarifies a little bit...as for my budget and for this cam....I will be doing mods along and along. For this engine build, I want to have it driveable after the motor is put in with all stock bolt ons. That way as I add headers, port the heads and intake, I will feel the progressive growth of the car and have time to adapt to the power I am making. Im looking to have a set of LTs in either in Jan or begining of summer, intake and heads p&p by January, and then other bolt ons next year and so on, really will depend on what I can get at a good price when.
lemme know if there is anyhtign I can do to clarify
As for application...I want to have something beefy, but not insane. I enjoy turns and curves and a little drifting so I dont want somthing too too powerful. I do want to roll out. I have a few firneds and a few haters with ls1s and old school 350's that are built and placed in cars that cant handel the power. So I want something that can hang with any of them. If I can mod my lt1 to roll out faster than lets say a 2002 z28/trans am I will be very very pleased. that is all i really want, as I will be building up suspension like crazy so i can go have some hairpin fun. I also dont want to loose the drivability and have it to where I hate getting in the car. I want it to be a fun sports car that can Hang with anything (within reason) that I put it next to on the strip/street/xcross.....im jstu going well rounded. For me, if I wanted to go super fast in a straight line, I would get a plane or attatch a rocket engine to a wheelchair....i want power that is managable....
i hope that clarifies a little bit...as for my budget and for this cam....I will be doing mods along and along. For this engine build, I want to have it driveable after the motor is put in with all stock bolt ons. That way as I add headers, port the heads and intake, I will feel the progressive growth of the car and have time to adapt to the power I am making. Im looking to have a set of LTs in either in Jan or begining of summer, intake and heads p&p by January, and then other bolt ons next year and so on, really will depend on what I can get at a good price when.
lemme know if there is anyhtign I can do to clarify
11-26-2006, 01:14 AM
#12
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Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 3,144
No one ever listens to my ideas, but I still flap them off...
Save your money and buy a set of quality ported heads/manifold. Heads are easier to replace anyway. Tuning wouldn't be as necessary as if you were running a different cam profile. Meaning you can still run the stock tune with the ported heads and still have good performance results. It would be a complete sleeper. Not sure you could beat LS1's with it if you are still running stock exhaust, but here's the zinger that some just don't understand...
Given equal applications a set of good ported heads on a stock cam will always outperform an aftermarket cam with stock heads. The reason why you see so many people opting for a cam is because it's a cheaper route for more hp. You wouldn't have to change gear ratios either to get the benefits of ported heads since your torque curve will not change. It'll just be higher.
After buying the heads then you can pick a cam that is best suited for the heads you choose to run.
Save your money and buy a set of quality ported heads/manifold. Heads are easier to replace anyway. Tuning wouldn't be as necessary as if you were running a different cam profile. Meaning you can still run the stock tune with the ported heads and still have good performance results. It would be a complete sleeper. Not sure you could beat LS1's with it if you are still running stock exhaust, but here's the zinger that some just don't understand...
Given equal applications a set of good ported heads on a stock cam will always outperform an aftermarket cam with stock heads. The reason why you see so many people opting for a cam is because it's a cheaper route for more hp. You wouldn't have to change gear ratios either to get the benefits of ported heads since your torque curve will not change. It'll just be higher.
After buying the heads then you can pick a cam that is best suited for the heads you choose to run.
Last edited by SS RRR; 11-26-2006 at 01:20 AM.
11-26-2006, 01:14 AM
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,706
is the car automatic or 6speed?
6 speeds you can manage the power easier
if you have an automatic, i'd highly look into the cc503 cam, or the XFI cam that I recommended, either one is a great all-around cam.
Personally, I will be running the XFI cam that I recommended on a all forged 383 w/ EB Ported heads and a 2800 stall.
6 speeds you can manage the power easier
if you have an automatic, i'd highly look into the cc503 cam, or the XFI cam that I recommended, either one is a great all-around cam.
Personally, I will be running the XFI cam that I recommended on a all forged 383 w/ EB Ported heads and a 2800 stall.
11-26-2006, 03:24 AM
#14
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it is a manual...it wont be facotry exhaust for too terribly much longer...im looking to go ahead and do a cam now, so that when i do my other mods i will have a larger increase, also when i get to a certain point, if the cam were to be left stock i would be swapping it anyways....im trying to go ahead and do it now, so that i wont have to swap it later...if i had the time I would go ahead and port out the heads and intake before slapping it together...but i dont ahve that time...
reamo04 you seem kind of set on the cc503. How do ou think this cam would work in an otherwise stock set up?
reamo04 you seem kind of set on the cc503. How do ou think this cam would work in an otherwise stock set up?
11-26-2006, 01:01 PM
#15
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,706
it is a manual...it wont be facotry exhaust for too terribly much longer...im looking to go ahead and do a cam now, so that when i do my other mods i will have a larger increase, also when i get to a certain point, if the cam were to be left stock i would be swapping it anyways....im trying to go ahead and do it now, so that i wont have to swap it later...if i had the time I would go ahead and port out the heads and intake before slapping it together...but i dont ahve that time...
reamo04 you seem kind of set on the cc503. How do ou think this cam would work in an otherwise stock set up?
reamo04 you seem kind of set on the cc503. How do ou think this cam would work in an otherwise stock set up?
both are good cams, and will pull hard. I believe they can both be used with stock heads, I know the cc503 can, not 100% sure about the 468. The cc503 is a great streetable cam, there are quite a few other people on this board that use it too.
AS for stock everything else, im not sure, you will need new springs more than likely, and maybe rocker arms and such. Be sure to budget extra, because stuff will screw up. I will probably go with the XFI cam because of the wider LSA to help create some low-speed torque and I dont want to rev over 6500. It all just depends what you want for a car. The 503 is a great overall cam with streetability, good powerband, and good track ability.
with stock headers,exhaust,cai it might not perform its best, idk. you will need a computer tune right away since you are touching the internals.