I am listening dude, but you're not... I CAN'T afford 500$ right now... and I hate cam surge and he says he can minimize it with a better tune. 100$ is really pushing my financial limits but it'll make my car have less cam surge+little extra power, i'll do it. Headers are coming, but in time... I am paying for all this myself and I don't make a crapload of money.

 

You aren't getting a dyno tune for $100. Getting the car on the dyno without a tune only gets you numbers. Save the $100 for now, and put it towards headers. Just because you can't afford the $500 for headers right now doesn't mean that you have to spend the $100 that you do have.

If you aren't getting any tuning done at the dyno I don't see how you plan to fix the surging, because the Dyno will only help Ion for the WOT stuff. Part throttle tuning requires lots of datalogs and the tuner being right there in the car to experience what is happening.

 

Exactly. Don't waste the little bit of spare money you do have on a mod that will be pointless. Put it towards headers and then gears to minimize your cam surge. You could buy decent headers off the for sale forum for a few hundred and install them yourself. I bought my slp's coated off this board for $300 shipped.

 

Ion said if I sent him the dyno chart he can minimize the surge which is what I want... I understand your guys logic on this but I am only 100$ for the dyno and thats it... other then shipping. I still have free tunes from Ion because I got my conversion less then 3 months ago. I figured I would do this now just to make my driving conditions much easier until I could get headers put on the car to bring back my low end...

I'm not putting gears on the car because I do lots of traveling and the 1500 at 70mph deal is awesome.

Who's Brent? Where can I get his guide for installing Jet Hot LT's? What kind tools do you need? I could try them by myself, but isn't that more then a days work? I don't have a garage to store the car in if its not.

 

Brent Franker. His name is Brent94Z i believe. He is a moderator of the LT1 forums. He has and archive of install guides. Everything from cams,header, to consoles and other mods. I know he has an install guide for Mid length headers. Its the same process. How long it takes will depend on how long you can work. I think they could be done in 6-8 hrs if everything went right.
Gears will really help your cam surge and going from if you are running 1500 now at 70, 4.10's will only make you run 1800. 3.73's would probably be about 1650. They will also help the low end torque.

 

I vote for headers. Save up and buy something, ANYTHING is better than those stock nightmares. The easier this thing breathes the easier you can get some more power out of it. Get some headers then get a dyno tune or at least a dyno and retune from ION. That's what I'm gonna be doing. Good luck.

-J

 

Rich has alot of good information, but I don't know if he is an engine builder.

I think I remember discussing this years ago, and I think Rich replied with a similar answrer to me , and someone else I think maybe you. (shoebox) Not sure though. I think he basically the same thing in the quote you gave from him above . That a higher LSA brings the power curve down and more low end. ............... But I thought (think) it's the oppostite.


Anyways , I think 95lt1 spd is right. I THINK the lower LSA brings the power curve down. vs a higher one . The same cam with a 108 lsa would peak sooner and drop off faster than an identical one with 114. I could be wrong , but how could a cam with more overlap fill the cylindes better a high RPM when it is harder to get more air in the engine the faster it turns. It would seem that the wider LSA would be better for capturing a better charge at higher RPM.

And I know someone may say "well how can a cam with more overlap peak sooner, and have more low end" ? From what thought I understood, was that the overlap from the lower LSA on an otherwise identical cam would cause a scavenging effect at lower speeds or close the intake valve sooner , compared to a higher LSA on the otherwise same cam on a naturally aspriated engine.

Perhaps some people are confusing the overlap or low speed loss off torque and high end power properties off bigger duration and corresponding it to having the same effect as with LSA.

I think maybe some mix up big duration rough idle, high end power , loss of some low end torque, and MORE OVERLAP and think it = the same power characteristics with lower LSA( 106, 108) since these lower LSA's have rougher idle and more overlap also ,and I think some attribute the same effects on power from low LSA as being the same as bigger duration because of some of the similarites.( more lope, rougher idle, MORE OVERLAP). But again the reason I thought the lower LSA had lower power range and lower end torque , was because of the scavenging or "drawing air in" effect that the LSA has from the overlap at lower engine speeds or closing the intake valve sooner and building or something too the sort.


By the way don't Pro stockers use something like 116 lsa . I think I read some use 114 or 116 -120 LSA . I saw a Pro Stock grind with I think a 116 lobe seperation angle . We know those guys are not looking to bring the power down lower . They buzz at what 9000 -10000 rpm ? And the engines leave at high rpm, and probably never drop too low or even see low Rpm except for at idle.



I would like to hear what Mr. Meux (sp.) Bretter(SStroker ACE) , Mindgame, or some other guys have to say on the matter. Please enlighten us because I know Rich and shoebox know there stuff, but I thought I was somewhat straight with the effects of LSA on power in a NA car.

 

The guys that are telling you to save for headers are right. I was like you wanting the most bang for the buck. I decided on headers because I was on a budget and installed them with my bro. It took me like 3 days because I had fitment issues, got rid of Air and Egr only because they would under no circumstances would they fit with the headers... But I am happy with them pulls sooo much harder and sounds much better. Headers are cheaper and easier to install then a cam package. If I were you I would start doing the work yourself or with a friend. That way when something breaks /fails you don't have to rely on some mechanic to save the day.

Can't you just get your pcm retuned for your cam without a dyno graph for free from Ion?

Just curious, What made you decide to do the cam first? Also, how much was it for the cam install ? (parts and labor)

Good luck and more POWER to ya

 

JFYI it won't be just the lowend power that you will get with LT's. You will get more power all over the rpm range.

 

bigger cam= better mid-high range power, loss of low-end. Try 3.73 or 4.10 gears to get your low end back. you WILL need drag radials.

 

I got the cam because I asked Dave from Combinationmotorsports.com for the most power/streetable cam I can use. I drive everyday and in winters it snows. He said to use this cam, I said ok. L0L

It kind of worked out because of my low end being depleted sorta, but the higher end is MUCH more powerful. I didn't realize until I raced an Acura Integra and yesterday when I punched it at 3500 and the tach just instantly hit 6k. **** was awesome... L0L

Well... since the cam won't actually hurt the car without headers, I do have time before a header install. So I want some nice driveability. I also decided that it'd be best if I installed them in the Spring AFTER Winter and snow.

I want the dynotune from Ion mainly because of driving issues. He says he can tune it much better with a dyno chart so what the hell. I'm also REALLY curious to see what numbers I put down SAE... I am hoping for about 280-290rwhp with this setup.

 

Hate to break the news to you, but you should have gotten the headers FIRST, then done the cam. I picked up over 40 rwhp from headers alone. Granted the cam gave me 60, but it was 60 gained because I have headers. I'll be surprised if you are happy about the results with the car. This is a common problem I see with these cars. People are told to do the wrong things in the wrong order, get frustrated because the money was put in the wrong place, and sell them and never want an F-body again. There needs to be a sticky with a mod guide as to the proper order to do mods. Good luck with it, and don't forget to post the results from the dyno!

 

Dyno was shot... have to go next week...

2nd, Cam was done first because I had bad lifters... so I had to dip in there anyway.

 

I'm with Vizard in that I prefer to be too "tight" than too "wide". Going wide for better idle is the wrong approach IMO. Should have chosen a cam with less duration... either that or simply live with more idle rpm.

-Mindgame

 

I didn't say I will need the dyno sheet for the part throttle stuff. I can correct your WOT settings based on the dyno sheet since right now it's programmed for the 112 both part and full throttle, but as far as part throttle goes, I will try a different spark table that should work better with the 114. The tune you have right now has no cam surge with a 112, but it may have a bit too much timing for a 114. (causing surge)

A dyno tune will be a waste of money in my opinion. If you want to invest money in something more helpful, I'd buy a cable from www.akmcables.com