the amazing internet screwed it all up.. magazine's used to be all that was avail to the "general public".. and u know how mag's hype up some junk...

 

Maybe you can clarify this. . . To me, 290+ actual, not advertised, cfm (210 Comp) in a stock port location, stock pushrod location, 23 deg off-the-shelf head is "results".

Also, what do you mean by "OEMs"? The first small block OEM head that I know of to do better than that is the LS7 heads at a ridiculous 350+ cfm. LT4's, Vortec's, LS1's will barely break 240.

 

Mike you just tryin to get in a fight?

 

I just don't like when people spread mis-information on the internet. Someone who is legitimately trying to learn this stuff doesn't know the difference between someone who's done testing and seen results, versus someone who posts, many times false, generalizations he's heard or read. A statement like "The OEMs stepped up and [AFR] didn't keep up plain and simple" would have you believe that a Vortec or LT4 head will outflow even the best AFR heads.

 

EVERY reputable porter will tell you flow is not the whole story. Guys are making more power with lesser flowing stock heads than they are with bigger AFRs. AFRs CAN be made to work but are not the wonder part most want to believe they are.

There is a local with a LT1 in a third gen TPIS ported AFR 195s a slightly bigger cam than I yet we ET and MPH about the same, MY CAR IS A CAPRICE and has those iron heads everyone loves to hate. Seen a lot of b-body guys have had mediocre results as well. Their current product is not inline with their reputation a spec of objectivity is all that is needed to see that. If looking to go all out I will say I think they have some castings that could be used to send to a reputable head guy. As cast or with their porting you are getting an overweight paperweight. Seen shipping boxes labled over 70lbs for a pair, that is pushing iron weight. Some extra thickness in the casting is definetely good but damn to pack on that much extra I am sure some is in the wrong areas negatively affecting things like cooling.

The only guys I see having good results with them spent A LOT after the purchase to get then in shape.

 

Again, I haven't been impressed with the 195 and smaller stuff. In actuality, they very well could have flowed about the same as your iron LT1 heads. However, I would've loved to race you with my old naturally aspirated 3rd gen with 210's (more on that below).

"Overweight paperweight" may be a bit extreme. My last car was an '89 Firebird, 11/1 383 5.7 rod, AFR 210 Race Readies out the box, GM 847 cam, Victor Jr., SLP 1 3/4 shorty headers, and single 3" exhaust, ran 11.0 at 123 mph with no weight removed on drag radials. If the 210's were that bad, I don't think it would've run this.

Yet another example, my friend's 406, 11/1, AFR 210 Race Readies out the box, 257/269 solid roller, and a Victor Jr. made 637 fwhp and 575 ftlb. Again, not bad for paper weights.

Just FYI, I've owned 1 set of TFS heads, followed by 3 sets of AFR 210's.

Mike

 

I love my All Pro's.. AFR can't hold a candle to em.. Group Hug!!!..

 

NOT fair throwing that in the conversation, as in, I'm jealous. Personally I think the TFS heads ported by Lloyd would be the way to go if you have costs concerns, and I can see a set in my future with a little luck. And by the way, I think of most of you as friends I've never met, but there will be no hugging from this guy!

 

What that tells me is that TPIS did a crap porting job on those AFR castings...

That is funny, I got my as cast pieces for $800 and by the time Lloyd was done with them including all the valvetrain and valves I had a grand total of $2000 into my heads. On loyd's bench, my AFR210's make a solid 30cfm more on the intake/exhaust then his current lt1 castings do when he was done. I think the AFR's were a good choice. Not to mention i need bigger combustion chambers anyway for boost.

You have data showing these negative affects? I am sure a thicker deck height aded some weight. Also, I'd rather my porter had extra to ake out then to litle. Why you ask? Because my porter can shape the port any way he feels fit if there is plenty of meat.

Not my heads...but perhaps others.