AdsoYo's 24x summary
09-08-2014, 09:43 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 362
AdsoYo's 24x summary
This isn’t a step-by-step install (although I linked one at the bottom), just my experience converting to a functioning 24x setup. While I was researching I found a huge amount of 24x resources on CamaroZ28.com and LS1Tech.com. The problem was that everything was so spread out and required hours of searching and reading. By telling my experience I hope to consolidate a lot of what I found.
This evening I am finally able to say my car can confidently be street driven and drives at least as well as it did with the opti. I’ve been eyeballing 24x for years but I didn’t start really researching until January. February 17th, I purchased all the parts. Everything came from EFI Connection except the wire harness which I bought from BP Automotive.
PARTS:
The list from EFI includes: 96-97 timing cover, 24x kit with mechanical water pump (includes crank reluctor, crank position sensor, cam reluctor, cam position sensor, cam sensor housing), ignition coil bracket with LS2 coils, 0411 LS1 PCM, PCM bracket. Total for all that was $1,350. All parts looked great and they cleaned up the used parts really well. They also include very detailed and easy to follow install instructions. I probably over-researched the install procedure thinking the included instructions wouldn’t be helpful but they’re really all you need.
The harness from BP was $750 and it looks amazing. The construction is top quality and very impressive. Bill is an outstanding individual to deal with and was extra helpful with some of my troubleshooting. He has tons of experience with 24x.
For the tune I chose PCMforless. I’ve used them before and they did a good job of getting things in the ball park. I emailed them before sending in the PCM just to make sure they would be able to tune for 24x and was assured that they have done a number of 24x PCM’s already. This time however, the experience was not good. Long story short, 4 of my plugs fouled and I had to use a tune from a guy I found on hptuners forums. Also had to use a local shop with hptuners to upload the file. To his credit, Bryan was always polite and helpful via email. This whole PCM ordeal set me back $700.
Total cost of my 24x conversion was $2800. Obviously I wasn’t trying to do anything the cheap way. There are guys who have done this for just the cost of the 24x kit easily.
INSTALL:
If you’ve ever done any work on the front of the engine, I feel like you’ll be okay. There were a few steps that I had some trouble with. One was getting the timing chain off. Mine is an aftermarket single roller and it took a lot of wiggling and hard pulling to get that thing off. I have no idea how I would’ve put it back on without cutting the cam dowel pin.
On that note, cutting the cam dowel pin was tricky. I had to buy an angle grinder, something I’ve never used before. I marked the pin flush with the cam reluctor and did my best to cut nice and straight. While cutting, your oil pan will most likely be hanging a little so be sure to stuff some paper towels or something in there so the shavings and metal tip don’t fall in.
Final tip: when installing timing chain, make sure the gears are dot-to-dot. As long as they’re aligned this way, you’re good to go.
EDIT 5/1/2015: While researching 24x one of the things that seemed to be incompatible was the EVAP system. I recently discovered this was not true. LT1 and LS1 EVAP are compatible from a harness standpoint. If you have a 93-95 f-body like me, you'll have to disable all EVAP DTC's except the one pertaining to the purge solenoid. If you have a 96-97, you have an EVAP switch along with the solenoid and should not need to edit anything EVAP related in the PCM. Below is my original paragraph on the topic.
This system is designed to store and dispose of fuel vapors before they can escape into the atmosphere. It does this by routing the vapor back into the engine. To work around this incompatibility, I disconnected the EVAP line from the solenoid and installed a breather on it. Then zip tied it into the driver’s side fender well. So far it’s been working great.
If you get trouble code P1336, that pertains to the CASE relearn procedure. It has no effect on any operations, it’s strictly for misfire detection. AFAIK only GM Tech 2’s and hptuners can do the CASE relearn.
Be sure to switch injector banks for cylinders 2-3-4-7!!!! That’s a big reason why 4 of my plugs fouled and it ran like garbage.
After the car was all buttoned up and ready to go, the only problems I had were tune-based. So far I have had zero problems with hardware.
EDIT 11/9/2014: I uploaded my HPTuners file for anyone who wants to have a look. That file is the culmination of 6 weeks and about 48-60 hours worth of street tuning.
EDIT 4/18/2015: Uploaded my latest tune. Been working on this thing since September and I continue to discover new bits of information to apply. There isn't much that hasn't been tweaked at this point. VE and MAF tables are dead nuts accurate. Now that the weather is warming up I'll be able to tune WOT at the local strip.
EDIT 4/20/15: The correct knock sensor for 24x is a 2001-2002 Express Van knock sensor. Delphi part number AS10015
Here’s the resources I used:
Step by step 24x install with photos
OBD2 diagnostic trouble codes
24x Tuning tips from EFI connection
Ford SVO redtop injector offsets
LT1 PCM tuning
LT1 Tuning tips from the same site above
More tuning info
Build a crank hub install tool
My CamaroZ28 24x troubleshoot thread
My LS1Tech 24x troubleshoot thread
This evening I am finally able to say my car can confidently be street driven and drives at least as well as it did with the opti. I’ve been eyeballing 24x for years but I didn’t start really researching until January. February 17th, I purchased all the parts. Everything came from EFI Connection except the wire harness which I bought from BP Automotive.
PARTS:
The list from EFI includes: 96-97 timing cover, 24x kit with mechanical water pump (includes crank reluctor, crank position sensor, cam reluctor, cam position sensor, cam sensor housing), ignition coil bracket with LS2 coils, 0411 LS1 PCM, PCM bracket. Total for all that was $1,350. All parts looked great and they cleaned up the used parts really well. They also include very detailed and easy to follow install instructions. I probably over-researched the install procedure thinking the included instructions wouldn’t be helpful but they’re really all you need.
The harness from BP was $750 and it looks amazing. The construction is top quality and very impressive. Bill is an outstanding individual to deal with and was extra helpful with some of my troubleshooting. He has tons of experience with 24x.
For the tune I chose PCMforless. I’ve used them before and they did a good job of getting things in the ball park. I emailed them before sending in the PCM just to make sure they would be able to tune for 24x and was assured that they have done a number of 24x PCM’s already. This time however, the experience was not good. Long story short, 4 of my plugs fouled and I had to use a tune from a guy I found on hptuners forums. Also had to use a local shop with hptuners to upload the file. To his credit, Bryan was always polite and helpful via email. This whole PCM ordeal set me back $700.
Total cost of my 24x conversion was $2800. Obviously I wasn’t trying to do anything the cheap way. There are guys who have done this for just the cost of the 24x kit easily.
INSTALL:
If you’ve ever done any work on the front of the engine, I feel like you’ll be okay. There were a few steps that I had some trouble with. One was getting the timing chain off. Mine is an aftermarket single roller and it took a lot of wiggling and hard pulling to get that thing off. I have no idea how I would’ve put it back on without cutting the cam dowel pin.
On that note, cutting the cam dowel pin was tricky. I had to buy an angle grinder, something I’ve never used before. I marked the pin flush with the cam reluctor and did my best to cut nice and straight. While cutting, your oil pan will most likely be hanging a little so be sure to stuff some paper towels or something in there so the shavings and metal tip don’t fall in.
Final tip: when installing timing chain, make sure the gears are dot-to-dot. As long as they’re aligned this way, you’re good to go.
EDIT 5/1/2015: While researching 24x one of the things that seemed to be incompatible was the EVAP system. I recently discovered this was not true. LT1 and LS1 EVAP are compatible from a harness standpoint. If you have a 93-95 f-body like me, you'll have to disable all EVAP DTC's except the one pertaining to the purge solenoid. If you have a 96-97, you have an EVAP switch along with the solenoid and should not need to edit anything EVAP related in the PCM. Below is my original paragraph on the topic.
This system is designed to store and dispose of fuel vapors before they can escape into the atmosphere. It does this by routing the vapor back into the engine. To work around this incompatibility, I disconnected the EVAP line from the solenoid and installed a breather on it. Then zip tied it into the driver’s side fender well. So far it’s been working great.
If you get trouble code P1336, that pertains to the CASE relearn procedure. It has no effect on any operations, it’s strictly for misfire detection. AFAIK only GM Tech 2’s and hptuners can do the CASE relearn.
Be sure to switch injector banks for cylinders 2-3-4-7!!!! That’s a big reason why 4 of my plugs fouled and it ran like garbage.
After the car was all buttoned up and ready to go, the only problems I had were tune-based. So far I have had zero problems with hardware.
EDIT 11/9/2014: I uploaded my HPTuners file for anyone who wants to have a look. That file is the culmination of 6 weeks and about 48-60 hours worth of street tuning.
EDIT 4/18/2015: Uploaded my latest tune. Been working on this thing since September and I continue to discover new bits of information to apply. There isn't much that hasn't been tweaked at this point. VE and MAF tables are dead nuts accurate. Now that the weather is warming up I'll be able to tune WOT at the local strip.
EDIT 4/20/15: The correct knock sensor for 24x is a 2001-2002 Express Van knock sensor. Delphi part number AS10015
Here’s the resources I used:
Step by step 24x install with photos
OBD2 diagnostic trouble codes
24x Tuning tips from EFI connection
Ford SVO redtop injector offsets
LT1 PCM tuning
LT1 Tuning tips from the same site above
More tuning info
Build a crank hub install tool
My CamaroZ28 24x troubleshoot thread
My LS1Tech 24x troubleshoot thread
Last edited by AdsoYo; 05-01-2015 at 05:13 PM.
09-09-2014, 10:38 AM
#2
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,644
Re: AdsoYo's 24x summary
One of the incompatibilities with 24x is the EVAP system. This system is designed to store and dispose of fuel vapors before they can escape into the atmosphere. It does this by routing the vapor back into the engine. The LT1 uses a solenoid and the LS1 uses a switch so they are not compatible. Since I don’t want to smell any vapors or have my fuel tank pop or implode, I disconnected the EVAP line from the solenoid and installed a breather on it. Then zip tied it into the driver’s side fender well. So far it’s been working great.
The more logical difference would be that your 94 had no vacuum detection switch to monitor the operating condition of the purge system, when 96-02 has a vacuum detection switch that can trigger a code. That could easily be added, since they were used on the OBD-2 LT1's.
Or, the LT1 system does not use a solenoid on the EVAP canister vent, while the LS1 system does.
I've already mentioned to you that venting the canister into the engine compartment, where there is the possibility of a spark and an explosion is not necessarily the best idea.
09-12-2014, 03:27 AM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 362
Re: AdsoYo's 24x summary
I'm using a PCM out of a 2002 F-body. I got my information from an email Mike Noonan sent an LS1tech user:
"About EGR
I think you will have to install an LS1 EGR valve. We’ve never done it and it looks like a challenge because the LS1 EGR valve won’t fit on the LT1 manifold. You will need to lookup 1999-2000 LS1 F-Body schematics to get the EGR wiring.
EVAP Vent
One system uses a switch and the other system used a solenoid. They are not compatible. Again, ground we haven’t covered.
EVAP Purge
Both systems control a solenoid in the same way. From a harness standpoint they are compatible. Not sure what tuning, if any, will be required to keep this working as intended.
Coil Power
We use the 18ga coil power (and ICM) wire at connector C100 for the LS coils. It’s up to you how you want to rework your own harness.
Thank you,
Mike Noonan
EFI Connection, LLC
Owner and Harness Builder
http://www.eficonnection.com
814-566-0946"
Concerning venting the canister into the driver's fender well: if the car explodes in a giant fireball and turns me into a crispy french fry, I'll post on here agreeing that it was a bad idea. I would rather have a functioning EVAP system for the fuel efficiency effects so I'm going to keep researching solutions. My current setup is doing the trick for now.
"About EGR
I think you will have to install an LS1 EGR valve. We’ve never done it and it looks like a challenge because the LS1 EGR valve won’t fit on the LT1 manifold. You will need to lookup 1999-2000 LS1 F-Body schematics to get the EGR wiring.
EVAP Vent
One system uses a switch and the other system used a solenoid. They are not compatible. Again, ground we haven’t covered.
EVAP Purge
Both systems control a solenoid in the same way. From a harness standpoint they are compatible. Not sure what tuning, if any, will be required to keep this working as intended.
Coil Power
We use the 18ga coil power (and ICM) wire at connector C100 for the LS coils. It’s up to you how you want to rework your own harness.
Thank you,
Mike Noonan
EFI Connection, LLC
Owner and Harness Builder
http://www.eficonnection.com
814-566-0946"
Concerning venting the canister into the driver's fender well: if the car explodes in a giant fireball and turns me into a crispy french fry, I'll post on here agreeing that it was a bad idea. I would rather have a functioning EVAP system for the fuel efficiency effects so I'm going to keep researching solutions. My current setup is doing the trick for now.
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