yeah, Im a dealer tech, and if the part doesnt fix it, it comes OFF the car or is not charged at all. part or labor. I HATE hearing people talk **** about dealer techs, when they prolly have NO basis for saying those things except what they have heard. and NO amount of expensive tools will help you figure out a problem. its up to the tech to figure it out just like anything else. all the tech II does is show you what the PCM is reading. it doesnt figure anything out for you. too many people think that the tech II will tell you exactly whats bad.
you run into these problem cars once in a while, but Ive never heard of anyone giving up and telling you to come get the car w/o figureing it out? thats odd to me unless you told them nevermind or something. in which case Im positive that guys relieved to have the car gone. even if he doesnt make any money on it.
still seems like it should be some sort of problem with the pcm or crank position sensor (must be OBDII car?) or there ckts. what exactly did they say it was or wasnt seeing during cranking that made them think this?

 

It keep moisture out of the optispark innards. If it is the opti the no start issue could be due to a bad optical sensor.

I HATE crooked dealer "techs". I have plenty of room to post **** about them. Perhaps there are some good ones? Maybe three in a 3000mi radius? My three experiences include:
Having to subpoena Frank Parra Chevrolet in TX for refusing to cover the cost of my optispark issues. They decided to settle two weeks before the court date. One of the "techs" made some smartass comment about me giving him my credit card and he'd be happy to find out what the real problem was. He also tried to convince me it was a compression problem, that all of bank 1 was tested and the highest reading was 90psi which could be a reason for the problems... ****ing morons.
Having my SLP Hurst shifter stolen from a dealer "tech" at Huffines Chevrolet in TX only to show up a day later with the weak excuse that it was lost.
Being charged over $90 at Brown Nissan in VA for saying they were going to replace an 02 sensor which was never done. The cost doesn't justify the means to get a lawyer for those POS'. There are thousands of stories like this.

 

3000mi raduis? lets be serious here... you mean 6000mi radius. Sometimes you can barely trust that they will do what they say unless your waiting with the vechicle and watching it. I always say I'll be waiting on the car even if I wont be.

Oh yeah and how can I forget the game of "I don't know what's wrong" where they replace every part on your car unrelated to the problem, then never fix what you came in for in the first place. It goes like this....

Dealer: Well Tom here's your car.... that will be $895 dollars.
Customer: $895 dollars?!?!?
Dealer: yes, we had to replace the belt, 02 sensors, air filter, oil pan gasket, tie rod ends, lube the chasis, there was a small coolant leak so we replaced all hoses, and we had to flush the radiator as well. Btw there's a ticking in your engine we might have to pull the motor eventually.
Customer: WHAT!!! I only brought the car in to get an oil change and new battery!
Dealer: well I'm sorry tom, but that is the cost of labor and parts, your car was seconds away from being stranded on the road.
Customer: but I just drove this thing in from California
Dealer: and you were lucky to make it
Customer: this is bullsh** I'm contacting the better business bureau
Dealer: good luck, they are worse than us!

 

i dont know my dealers stories are i had a 04 silverado bought it new . it keep shutting off on me at random at about 1200 miles and it went to six diffrent chevy dealerships around jersey . kerbeck in atlantic city said dont know whats wrong come pick it up and i live 60 miles away . patterson chevy in hightstown nj . put new fuelpump in did it again 5 miles from shop . returned three time to pinebelt chevy the last time i yelled at the service manage that i dont know why you cant locate the problem and i dont want to see it till it''s fixed . and i wanted a rental car while the do it . had to fight for that cause they said maybe it's not gms problem so the diddnt want to give me the rental . anyways 2 weeks later it turns out the ground for the fuel pump was loose and would shut the fuel pump off .

so thats why i dont trust dealer techs .

 

oh ok. then IM a crook. whatever. I guess everyone I work with at my shop is a crook. I guess those guys down the street in the old gas station are straight up guys and only do top notch work.

if you ever question what a tech (anywhere) is trying to sell you, then simple. go IN and have them SHOW you the problem, and why there telling you to replacing it. we do that whenever anyone asks at my dealership.

and if they sell you something to repair a problem, and the exact same problem reoocurs, then you legally are entitled to a full refund. if your car is coverd by GM warranty (not nec. GMPP extended warranty though) and the problem cant be fixed by the days end, then you get a rental car. and GM reimburse's us for that. cant explain why that place wouldnt give you a rental.
but as I said before, if the problem is intermitent, then first you have to get it to act up before you can figure out why its doin whatever its not doin. hopefully it'll keep doin it too while your trying to figure it out but most time intermitent problems just come and go for no rhime or reason so it cant be figured out until you figured out how to make it act up.

ok Im done here. go ahead, bash away on me for no reason.

chris

 

yeah, Im sure this happened to you right?

 

I was being sarcastic,

But I'll tell you what did happen to me. Years ago (6) I took my Camaro to the Dealer to get an oil change. Car was virtually brand new like 20K miles on it. The bastards in the shop changed the oil out, but didn't replace the washer. Obviously the car was going to leak. Drove the car home... next day huge puddle under the car. Took the car back to the dealer and they looked at it and acted like they were working on it. These a**holes told me that the oil pan drain plug was stripped because it had so many oil changes. LOL's with 20K miles on there? That's like 6 oil changes. These idiots told me they need to take the motor out the car, and replace the oil pan. It would cost about $900.00 to do the job. LOFL's. I wonder how many people they scammed this way. I took the car home, investigated the leak myself... found the out what they didn't do, went back to the shop and raised pure hell! I went to the Dealership manager and let him have it completely. They didn't waste anytime giving me a refund to get me out of there. So if your one of these POS mechanics that rips people off then I suggest you have a right to be offended, but if not then don't bash people for telling the truth about thier experiences. It's not a myth that dealers rip people off so don't act like it doesn't happens. Matter of fact it is so bad they had to make laws against these practices! That's how Crook mechanics like yourself (since you said your a crook) and crooked shops make thier money. Usually when I drop my car off for Tires, or whatever I tape the hood shut and put the 4K rpm rev chip in there. THat keeps nosey people out, and joy riders grounded.

 

Sure! In a lovely blossom filled, tinker bell pixie dust sprinkling world. However in the real world it just doesn't work out that easily the proof is in my almost taking one dealer to court. The stories I've mentioned are only the best ones. The others are frivolous compared. Most people you ask regarding their experience at a dealer are too stupid to realize they may have just gotten robbed blind.
Oh yeah... forgot the one with my 85 Camaro that I took into a Chevrolet dealer in Cleburne, TX to see what code it was throwing and was told the engine was shot, needed a rebuild when all that was wrong was a broken vacuum line. Damn geniuses those ASE certified techs are yessir!
This is the wrong place to win over anyone if you work at a dealer.
You decided to get involved. Maybe you aren't a crook. Most mechanics you talk to will say the same damned thing, but if you are honest you are a VERY VERY rare breed.

 

i'm not saying all gm techs a crooks but more offten than not they are pushed to the limit . I know the pay structure at the dealer ship from gm sucks , they provide little to no training on the new products and expect you to know how to fix it . And i beleive that you need to see it happen to fix it but they never keep it long enough to find the problem . for me it left me stranded 4 diffrent times , luckley i diddnt get towing , and as for the rental car they only give it to you if they look at it that day and cant fix it (and know its a deffect ) . if it breaks after hours than screw you , if they cant find the problem than no car either .

Thing is i'm a ase certified tech too but i didnt want to work on it thats the reson i bought a new truck .

so yah i think i have a right to be mad at the dealers in jersey . and like four companys own most of the dealerships around here.

I also work with a master tech who worked for gm for 20 years so i've heard all the storys of what goes on over there .

 

I didnt get offended personally, but as a very proud 12 year dealer tech, I am not goin to just sit back and let you or anyone tell people that ALL dealer techs are dumb or crooked. yes everyone makes mistakes though, and noone has pixie dust that we sprinkle on cars to show us what the real problem is. there are bad people everyewhere in the world. thats very unfortunate. but its true. yes you should be careful, yes you should question anything that doesnt sound right. and the things Ive said are true as far as not having to pay for repairs that you didnt ask to have done, or ok after the fact, or that didnt fix the problem. doesnt mean that a bad technician or service writer wont try to get away with it.

chris

 

well your right in the fact that they dont train us on new cars and featurs ahead of time, and the way they see it is we need to teach ourselves on the first few we work on. but they do extensivly train us on things across the board. or atleast OFFER those services to us. but some people do choose not to participate. noone at my shop though, as we do get paid to get trained, and we are one of the shops around that compete's to be at the top of the trained listings.

yes you do have a right to be pissed. I would be too after what happened to you. on a car like yours, we would try to look at all the possible things that could cause that if we have driven it and couldnt duplicate it. and would give it back if we couldnt find anything. but, if it came back a second time, we'd spend all the time possibe to figure it out, get it to act up, and it would be there until the customer decided to take it back. Ive driven cars like that home for days trying to get it to act up for me (with the customers permission ofcourse). sometimes if it goes weeks w/o doin it, it just wont act up. Im sure your aware of the "lemon law" that is if you have a reoccuring problem, and its the same problem 3 times while in warranty, then GM has to buy the car back from you at a reasonable cost. Im not sure exactly how this works, but I know they have to pay a real value of the vehicle. not just make some lowball offer.

the thing is, I dont work for GM. one guy owns my dealership. he pays us, GM reimburses him for paying us, buying parts, training us. there are a handful of dealerships around that are also owned by one person, I know what your saying.

chris

 

This dealer has treated us very well. We can count on them for professional service, realworld advice and reasonable prices EVERY time. The Ford (can I use that 4 letter word on this site) dealer in town has taken me to autozone for a part he was replacing when his dealership price for that part was too high (took me in the courtesy van). I don't know about you guys, but I really appreciate the trained, experienced mechanics on this site who do what they can to help. I'm sure we've all been "stuck" at a dealership somewhere before, and if that's the only place you've ever been "stuck" you're ahead of most of us. As we get older and wiser we learn how to look out for ourselves, and how to approach others so that they WANT to help us.

The reason we asked him to stop at the (possible) optispark diagnosis is because a shop in town had replaced it in April and wanted to use parts & labor warranties from that shop. The dealer techs were stumped and we'll let them know what the problem was when we find it. There are 2 vacuum hoses running into that optispark, are they limited to keeping moisture out or do they serve other purpose (troubleshoot ideas?)

 

As I understand it the dealer said that at startup, when this condition is present, there is no injector pulse and no spark. He said the cranking rpm's are not being seen by the computer, so it is not sending spark and pulse info out. When it is running and stalls the same condition is present. Am going to try some of the troubleshooting tips on shbox..is there a good block diagram out there that shows how the different parts interact during startup?

 

thank god its back to the problem at hand. sorry to muddy up your thread. and Im also glad you have been treated good.

and for the record, Im not trying to defend anyone in these examples on here, they all sound rediculous.

as for the vacuum lines, all they do is vent the opti, to keep condensation from building up inside it and corroding everything. so no, they shouldnt have anything to do with your problem.

as for the opti, I havent personally ever seen this sort of thing happen from an opti, but I also cant tell you if its possible or not possible.

from what I konw, all you'll be able to do is test the integrity of all the wires that have anything to do with the crank signal. weather its from a crank position sensor to the pcm, or if the opti also sends a signal back to the pcm. Im pretty sure the opti has sort of a cam position sensor built into it, and thats the signal its sending to the pcm. the pcm can interprit (spelling?) the crank position compared to the cam position to know exactly what place the eng is in. atleast thats how I have always thought it worked. but like I said, I havent had a problem like this ever related to the opti. lucky for me I guess. all the ones Ive seen were random misfires, rough running in general, only misfire over certain rpm, stuff like that.
did that dealer test the wiring between the sensors? I'll be very curious to know if the opti IS causing your problem. so keep us informed on here. could be some good info for people to know now that these cars are getting pretty long in the tooth.

chris

 

with this being said, Id try to unplug the opti, and crank the car over. if the cranking rpms still register, then the opti cant be causeing the problem. if unplugging the opti also causes the readings to dissapear, then there's a good chance it is the source of the problem. but I would guess that the crank position sensor has that sole duty/responsibility. and the opti just supplies a means of providing additional coordination information.

chris