Ls1 Vs. Lt1
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 382
From: Cypress, Orange County CA.
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
I owned both a 93Z28 with an LT1 and my current 01SS LS1, there is no comparison for me...
The LS1 is a better engine, better car...
I LOVED my 93LT1, and that said, I put over 175K miles on it, I changed that freaking Optispark(distributor) THREE TIMES, it is an absolute pain in the ***, not to mention expensive. Obviously I also changed the waterpump as well.
Performance-wise, again, no comparison, I really loved the way my 93Z28 sounded, it had JBA shorty headers, Flowmaster 80 exhaust, it was an awesome sounding car, great low-end torque.
The LS1, man, when I drove it, I thought to myself, "why all the hoopla, this thing is nothing special," and it was then that I realized that the '01SS just ran much smoother, it was very deceiving, bottom line the LS1 walks over my LT1 any day of the week, not to mention that the LS1 HAS NO OPTISPARK, that settles it as far as I'm concerned...
The LS1 is a better engine, better car...
I LOVED my 93LT1, and that said, I put over 175K miles on it, I changed that freaking Optispark(distributor) THREE TIMES, it is an absolute pain in the ***, not to mention expensive. Obviously I also changed the waterpump as well.
Performance-wise, again, no comparison, I really loved the way my 93Z28 sounded, it had JBA shorty headers, Flowmaster 80 exhaust, it was an awesome sounding car, great low-end torque.
The LS1, man, when I drove it, I thought to myself, "why all the hoopla, this thing is nothing special," and it was then that I realized that the '01SS just ran much smoother, it was very deceiving, bottom line the LS1 walks over my LT1 any day of the week, not to mention that the LS1 HAS NO OPTISPARK, that settles it as far as I'm concerned...
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 923
From: Plainfield IL
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by 94ZRiCeKiLr
no flame intended dude but YES a lid can absolutely make a difference...i've seen them worth as much as 10-12 RWHP in a STOCK car....
now take a car with a stock intake and exhaust tract but ported heads and a cam...the purpose of porting heads and adding a bigger cam is to increase airflow into and out of the engine correct??? what is the point if the air cant get past the induction to get into the heads and then cant get out quickly enough because the exhaust is too restrictive....you've just choked off your good-flowing heads and big-duration cam. add a lid to this setup and you could pick up as much as 15 or more RWHP....
Longtube headers are THE bolt-on for an LS1. there is NO comparison to a stock manifold or even a shorty header. people typically see around 20 RWHP from a set on a STOCK internal car...eliminate free flowing headers from a head and cam car and you'll choke off WELL more than that...
the name of the game when it comes to making hp is moving air...you're motor could be set up to move a TON of air but if you don't have the right bolt-ons to let the motor itself take the air in and spit it out...your shooting yourself in the foot.
another point...if you want 100 hp out of heads and cam without exhaust or even a lid you're going to need a cam that is SO BIG that NOBODY will be stupid enough to believe your car is stock. i honestly dont even see a t-rex cam (which lopes like crazy) and a set of ported heads making an honest 100 RWHP in a car that cant get air past the airbox and out the exhaust pipes. it just won't happen....heads and cam with no exhaust flow and a corked up intake is NOT worth the money involved JUST TRUST ME. im not in anyway talking down to u guys im just trying to keep you from making what coudl be an expensive mistake. sure you will gain power with heads and cam alone but it will be a **** poor improvement for the money you spent
can someone back me up on this???? BOLT-ONS AREN'T AN ALTERNATIVE TO MOTOR WORK, THEY ARE NEEDED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
i will make a bet with you for any amount of money that neither one of your cars will make 400 RWHP with heads and cam and a totally stock intake and exhaust setup...GUARANTEED
now take a car with a stock intake and exhaust tract but ported heads and a cam...the purpose of porting heads and adding a bigger cam is to increase airflow into and out of the engine correct??? what is the point if the air cant get past the induction to get into the heads and then cant get out quickly enough because the exhaust is too restrictive....you've just choked off your good-flowing heads and big-duration cam. add a lid to this setup and you could pick up as much as 15 or more RWHP....
Longtube headers are THE bolt-on for an LS1. there is NO comparison to a stock manifold or even a shorty header. people typically see around 20 RWHP from a set on a STOCK internal car...eliminate free flowing headers from a head and cam car and you'll choke off WELL more than that...
the name of the game when it comes to making hp is moving air...you're motor could be set up to move a TON of air but if you don't have the right bolt-ons to let the motor itself take the air in and spit it out...your shooting yourself in the foot.
another point...if you want 100 hp out of heads and cam without exhaust or even a lid you're going to need a cam that is SO BIG that NOBODY will be stupid enough to believe your car is stock. i honestly dont even see a t-rex cam (which lopes like crazy) and a set of ported heads making an honest 100 RWHP in a car that cant get air past the airbox and out the exhaust pipes. it just won't happen....heads and cam with no exhaust flow and a corked up intake is NOT worth the money involved JUST TRUST ME. im not in anyway talking down to u guys im just trying to keep you from making what coudl be an expensive mistake. sure you will gain power with heads and cam alone but it will be a **** poor improvement for the money you spent
can someone back me up on this???? BOLT-ONS AREN'T AN ALTERNATIVE TO MOTOR WORK, THEY ARE NEEDED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
i will make a bet with you for any amount of money that neither one of your cars will make 400 RWHP with heads and cam and a totally stock intake and exhaust setup...GUARANTEED
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by CrippleFightin
I know a guy that has a BIGGER cam AND Stage 2 heads but NO bolt ons who put down 390 rwhp and 370ft lbs.
I'm sure you could squeeze out a little more with more tuning, and maybe a more aggressive cam
.***Let me just say*** I don't for one second believe that there is no point in doing intake & exhaust, I'm just saying that the factory stuff isn't quite as bad as what everyone believes
. I mean, if it was as "choked" as everyone says, then there wouldn't be a single stock LS1 capable of putting ~320 - 330 HP to the wheels, or running into the 12's
. To make a ~300 rwhp car make ~400 rwhp isn't quite as extreme as trying to get ~500+ rwhp, which is totally possible, and has been done many times. It's the 500 rwhp car that REALLY NEEDS the upgraded air intake, intake manifold, and low restriction (LT header) exhaust system
.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 420
From: brunswick ohio, small burb south of cleveland
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
Too bad, I'm out!
Would you like to see what I could do with a set of LT's, higher ratio RR's, and a ~2500 stall converter? I'd even switch back to 2.73's if you'd like, but I'd still run almost a full second quicker I bet.
Would you like to see what I could do with a set of LT's, higher ratio RR's, and a ~2500 stall converter?
I'd even switch back to 2.73's if you'd like, but I'd still run almost a full second quicker I bet.david
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 980
From: batavia, ohio
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
u know i used to be the biggest supporter of the LT1 but the opti let me down 1 too many times. so for power, i have to say LS1 now.
but without the opti (use a delteq or similar for igniton) the LT1 is a great motor and still more cost effecient and reliable IMO.
but without the opti (use a delteq or similar for igniton) the LT1 is a great motor and still more cost effecient and reliable IMO.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 821
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
your forgetting the fact that you have an automatic....you WON'T put down 400 RWHP with no bolt-ons...it won't happen (probably not even with a T-rex cam which is an extreme example cuz i really don't think you were planning on putting one in anyway...its just too damn big)
the TSP car was a stick car if i remember right...HUGE difference..automatics can't even run a cam that big effectively. our idle is 300 rpm lower than an M6....can you imagine a t-rex cam at ~700 rpm???
you wouldnt be able to put it in gear without it stalling....solution? jack up idle... ok so now you have a giant cam in a car with a 1000 rpm idle....the sleeper thing just went out the window...
besides, EVERYONE and their mother has at least a lid...and since you think it makes almost no difference anyway, so would most other people....nobody would give it a second look. a lid and exhaust are not going to kill your sleeper status...
its really tough to go 11s with a H/C no bolt-on setup unless you have a pretty good size stall converter and probably slicks...neither of which lends to the sleeper thing....
hey dude, its your money and your car so u decide for yourself, all im trying to do is offer an outside opinion since i have a little experience with the OTHER end of the spectrum (bolt-on build up). you complimented me in this same thread about my ETs for my amount of mods (thank you by the way). i've been around street racing for awhile and trust me....ANYONE who doesn't fully understand LS1s like we do sees my car as a sleeper! how fast could a stock motor with a couple bolt-ons be??? all im really trying to do is show the value of bolt-on parts on our cars....anyway happy modding, whatever you choose to do.
the TSP car was a stick car if i remember right...HUGE difference..automatics can't even run a cam that big effectively. our idle is 300 rpm lower than an M6....can you imagine a t-rex cam at ~700 rpm???
you wouldnt be able to put it in gear without it stalling....solution? jack up idle... ok so now you have a giant cam in a car with a 1000 rpm idle....the sleeper thing just went out the window...besides, EVERYONE and their mother has at least a lid...and since you think it makes almost no difference anyway, so would most other people....nobody would give it a second look. a lid and exhaust are not going to kill your sleeper status...
its really tough to go 11s with a H/C no bolt-on setup unless you have a pretty good size stall converter and probably slicks...neither of which lends to the sleeper thing....
hey dude, its your money and your car so u decide for yourself, all im trying to do is offer an outside opinion since i have a little experience with the OTHER end of the spectrum (bolt-on build up). you complimented me in this same thread about my ETs for my amount of mods (thank you by the way). i've been around street racing for awhile and trust me....ANYONE who doesn't fully understand LS1s like we do sees my car as a sleeper! how fast could a stock motor with a couple bolt-ons be??? all im really trying to do is show the value of bolt-on parts on our cars....anyway happy modding, whatever you choose to do.
Last edited by 94ZRiCeKiLr; Jul 27, 2004 at 05:42 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 923
From: Plainfield IL
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
See, that's damn close to 400 rwhp, and NO BOLT-ONS!!! I'm sure you could squeeze out a little more with more tuning, and maybe a more aggressive cam.
I'm sure you could squeeze out a little more with more tuning, and maybe a more aggressive cam. F*ck that! Stupid in my opinion. But hey everyone does their own thing.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by 94ZRiCeKiLr
all im really trying to do is show the value of bolt-on parts on our cars....anyway happy modding, whatever you choose to do.
. FWIW, I'm not looking to build the same type of stock-appearing "sleeper" that 2001 B4C was talking about (factory lid and exhaust). I'm all about going as fast as possible, so I've already done the lid, and I plan on doing LT's one day too
.
Originally Posted by dren70
man i am behind on this one. yes i would like to see you get a second out of long tubes, 2.73's, and a 2500 stall. i would take that bet any day of the week. our cars are so close that the driver could win or lose that race any day.
) but if you look at 94ZRiCeKiLr's sig, he ran 12.11 with a lid, LT's, 3.42's and a 3200 stall as his main power adders
. Well, 12.11 is more than a full second quicker than 13.2, so I think my theory would almost hold true (factoring in a little loss using 2.73's vs. 3.42's). The same type of mods on the LT1 only got you low 13's, not low 12's. I'm not trying to bash the LT1, 'cause it's a helluva motor, but it just doesn't make power as easily with bolt-ons as the LS1 does, unless you change heads & cam.
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 213
From: Sterling IL USA
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Ive owned both cars so I have to put in my .02
LS1 is a better car period...LT1 looks better and sounds better( imo ) but doesnt perform in any category better than the LS1. reliability in both cars is top notch as far as Im concerned save for the F'n opti in the LT1(JUNK) I put 180,000 miles on the 93 and Id still be drivin it if that tree didnt walk out in front of me. I have 108,000 on the 99 and it still runs like a hillbillies sister.
Driving the LS1 may not convince you...take it to the track and bring a friend to help you close your mouth
LS1 is a better car period...LT1 looks better and sounds better( imo ) but doesnt perform in any category better than the LS1. reliability in both cars is top notch as far as Im concerned save for the F'n opti in the LT1(JUNK) I put 180,000 miles on the 93 and Id still be drivin it if that tree didnt walk out in front of me. I have 108,000 on the 99 and it still runs like a hillbillies sister.
Driving the LS1 may not convince you...take it to the track and bring a friend to help you close your mouth
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 96
From: Indianapolis
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
yes they do, mine is at 113,000 it went 100,000 miles with just oil changes. no major work, lets see an LT1 do that..... o wait they cant because of their opti spark
(i own both a LT1 and LS1 car)
(i own both a LT1 and LS1 car)
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 120
From: Bristol, TN
Re: Ls1 Vs. Lt1
Originally Posted by 97bowtie
Have you noticed a trend though..? Most of the LS1 guys in this thread have owned LT1s in the past. Their input is unbiased as it can be. You could post this same thread (which has been done 1000 times) in LT1 tech and you would get very similar responses.
The LS1 is simply a better motor from the factory. I have owned both cars and I had a pretty quick cam-only LT1. My SS will go just as quick with bolt-ons, if not quicker. With the LS1 you are starting with 15 degree heads, 1.7 rockers, lighter aluminum block, close to shorty headers from the factory, etc. It's a better motor. Period.
The LS1 is simply a better motor from the factory. I have owned both cars and I had a pretty quick cam-only LT1. My SS will go just as quick with bolt-ons, if not quicker. With the LS1 you are starting with 15 degree heads, 1.7 rockers, lighter aluminum block, close to shorty headers from the factory, etc. It's a better motor. Period.
LS1>LT1 (But I love my LT1)