C5 power under-rated like F-body???
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 504
From: Portland, OR
Originally posted by ratio411
Steve,
You misunderstood me.
The appearance package comment wasn't about the Vette. Of course I see the Vette as a totally different animal and a work of engineering art to be frank. The engine is the same between the cars though, the speed and handling of the Vette comes from superior engineering, not engine mods.
The SS Camaro is what I termed an appearance package. There is not much to argue with there. It is also putting out the same power from the engine, but like with the Vette, GM strokes the owners by taking some of that underrated hp out of hiding and puts it on paper.
I am glad that GM saw fit to underrate the LS1 and give it to Camaro owners, but I think it is crappy that GM feels it has to do this so as not to offend Vette owners. Don't say Vette owners don't hassle GM either because GM wouldn't be worried about it if it doesn't happen.
Just had to clear that up.
Dave
Steve,
You misunderstood me.
The appearance package comment wasn't about the Vette. Of course I see the Vette as a totally different animal and a work of engineering art to be frank. The engine is the same between the cars though, the speed and handling of the Vette comes from superior engineering, not engine mods.
The SS Camaro is what I termed an appearance package. There is not much to argue with there. It is also putting out the same power from the engine, but like with the Vette, GM strokes the owners by taking some of that underrated hp out of hiding and puts it on paper.
I am glad that GM saw fit to underrate the LS1 and give it to Camaro owners, but I think it is crappy that GM feels it has to do this so as not to offend Vette owners. Don't say Vette owners don't hassle GM either because GM wouldn't be worried about it if it doesn't happen.
Just had to clear that up.
Dave
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 83
From: Miami FL
Originally posted by ratio411
Took the words from my fingers!
They have the same engine. Even the SS/WS6 cars are the same as regular, GM just pulls a couple of those horses out of the closet and puts them on paper to make the folks that dish out a ton of money for an appearance package feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Don't get mad at the messenger, just tellin' it like it is.
Dave
Took the words from my fingers!
They have the same engine. Even the SS/WS6 cars are the same as regular, GM just pulls a couple of those horses out of the closet and puts them on paper to make the folks that dish out a ton of money for an appearance package feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Don't get mad at the messenger, just tellin' it like it is.
Dave
but i dunno if i drove a 405hp 6 speed I'd be cocky too.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 312
From: Huntsville, AL
Originally posted by My ambitionz
amen brother! I got into a pretty heated argument with an ignorant ss owner about this. He was swearing to me that the ss ws6 make much more power than the z28 formula/trans am. I was telling him: man it's the same engine with a pretty little hood on it. but he refuses to accept. even on this site i've been quiet to comment on this topic for the very reason that some owners take it as an insult and flame you. now on the vette it is a great piece of work, and i wish I could afford one, but what gm calls the ls4 is just a ls1 with vette fuel rail covers on it. that dosen't make the vette any less of a car, it's kinda sad though cuz you see fellow maro/bird owners on the road and always give and receive a nod from them, see a vette and it's like you don't exist.
but i dunno if i drove a 405hp 6 speed I'd be cocky too.
amen brother! I got into a pretty heated argument with an ignorant ss owner about this. He was swearing to me that the ss ws6 make much more power than the z28 formula/trans am. I was telling him: man it's the same engine with a pretty little hood on it. but he refuses to accept. even on this site i've been quiet to comment on this topic for the very reason that some owners take it as an insult and flame you. now on the vette it is a great piece of work, and i wish I could afford one, but what gm calls the ls4 is just a ls1 with vette fuel rail covers on it. that dosen't make the vette any less of a car, it's kinda sad though cuz you see fellow maro/bird owners on the road and always give and receive a nod from them, see a vette and it's like you don't exist.
but i dunno if i drove a 405hp 6 speed I'd be cocky too.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 144
From: Miami, Florida
You should tell your ignorant SS friend that the WS6 is not even the TA equivilent of the SS.. the Firehawk is. Some people just dont get it though, not matter how much you explain it to him. Just let him remain stupid so he can make a bigger *** of himself later in life.. lol.
camaro = firebird
z28 = trans am
ss = ws6
no one really talks about firehawks where i live... i guess it's cuz no one's got one. i know about them though... i always thought they were the equivalent of an ss, but someone told me the ws6 was... no one told me otherwise, so it just stuck w/ me. can someone set me str8 w/ the info? thanks
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,254
From: Darien, IL, usa (Chicago W.Suburbs)
Originally posted by afterimage ss
i always thought that...
camaro = firebird
z28 = trans am
ss = ws6
no one really talks about firehawks where i live... i guess it's cuz no one's got one. i know about them though... i always thought they were the equivalent of an ss, but someone told me the ws6 was... no one told me otherwise, so it just stuck w/ me. can someone set me str8 w/ the info? thanks
i always thought that...
camaro = firebird
z28 = trans am
ss = ws6
no one really talks about firehawks where i live... i guess it's cuz no one's got one. i know about them though... i always thought they were the equivalent of an ss, but someone told me the ws6 was... no one told me otherwise, so it just stuck w/ me. can someone set me str8 w/ the info? thanks
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 383
From: Goleta, CA
I thought it went like this:
Camaro/Firebird similar
Z28/Transam similar
SS/WS6 similar
35th Anniversary Special Edition SS/Firehawk Similar...
If you look at both Chevrolet's and Pontiac's site and compare SS and WS6 they are similar for options only when you step up to the 35th Anniversary Special Edition SS and the Firehawk, those 2 have similar options as well.. This is how I took it when I compared the F-Bodys to each other.
My opinion on the whole fact that GM underrated the LS1 in the F-bodys was the fact that they did not want people spending less money on a car when they were ignorant to the fact that both the Vette and F-bodys were very similar in performance. How would they sell a Vette for 50 - 60,000 over a F-body at 21 - 38,000 ?? So it was obvious that they are going to underrate the f-body because they don't want to take aways sales from their flagship car the Vette. If you were selling cars and someone comes up and says that they are looking at either a Camaro and a Vette but they want the most performance and money is no object ? Would you sell a car for $ 60,000 versus a $ 32,000 ?? I would have done exactly what GM did when it came to rating the HP and Torque from a vette versus camaro/firebird..
Camaro/Firebird similar
Z28/Transam similar
SS/WS6 similar
35th Anniversary Special Edition SS/Firehawk Similar...
If you look at both Chevrolet's and Pontiac's site and compare SS and WS6 they are similar for options only when you step up to the 35th Anniversary Special Edition SS and the Firehawk, those 2 have similar options as well.. This is how I took it when I compared the F-Bodys to each other.
My opinion on the whole fact that GM underrated the LS1 in the F-bodys was the fact that they did not want people spending less money on a car when they were ignorant to the fact that both the Vette and F-bodys were very similar in performance. How would they sell a Vette for 50 - 60,000 over a F-body at 21 - 38,000 ?? So it was obvious that they are going to underrate the f-body because they don't want to take aways sales from their flagship car the Vette. If you were selling cars and someone comes up and says that they are looking at either a Camaro and a Vette but they want the most performance and money is no object ? Would you sell a car for $ 60,000 versus a $ 32,000 ?? I would have done exactly what GM did when it came to rating the HP and Torque from a vette versus camaro/firebird..
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 966
From: Chicago
Originally posted by dmnall
I thought it went like this:
Camaro/Firebird similar
Z28/Transam similar
SS/WS6 similar
35th Anniversary Special Edition SS/Firehawk Similar...
If you look at both Chevrolet's and Pontiac's site and compare SS and WS6 they are similar for options only when you step up to the 35th Anniversary Special Edition SS and the Firehawk, those 2 have similar options as well.. This is how I took it when I compared the F-Bodys to each other.
My opinion on the whole fact that GM underrated the LS1 in the F-bodys was the fact that they did not want people spending less money on a car when they were ignorant to the fact that both the Vette and F-bodys were very similar in performance. How would they sell a Vette for 50 - 60,000 over a F-body at 21 - 38,000 ?? So it was obvious that they are going to underrate the f-body because they don't want to take aways sales from their flagship car the Vette. If you were selling cars and someone comes up and says that they are looking at either a Camaro and a Vette but they want the most performance and money is no object ? Would you sell a car for $ 60,000 versus a $ 32,000 ?? I would have done exactly what GM did when it came to rating the HP and Torque from a vette versus camaro/firebird..
I thought it went like this:
Camaro/Firebird similar
Z28/Transam similar
SS/WS6 similar
35th Anniversary Special Edition SS/Firehawk Similar...
If you look at both Chevrolet's and Pontiac's site and compare SS and WS6 they are similar for options only when you step up to the 35th Anniversary Special Edition SS and the Firehawk, those 2 have similar options as well.. This is how I took it when I compared the F-Bodys to each other.
My opinion on the whole fact that GM underrated the LS1 in the F-bodys was the fact that they did not want people spending less money on a car when they were ignorant to the fact that both the Vette and F-bodys were very similar in performance. How would they sell a Vette for 50 - 60,000 over a F-body at 21 - 38,000 ?? So it was obvious that they are going to underrate the f-body because they don't want to take aways sales from their flagship car the Vette. If you were selling cars and someone comes up and says that they are looking at either a Camaro and a Vette but they want the most performance and money is no object ? Would you sell a car for $ 60,000 versus a $ 32,000 ?? I would have done exactly what GM did when it came to rating the HP and Torque from a vette versus camaro/firebird..
Camaro = Firebird
Z28 = Formula
Z28 w/ sport appearance pkg = Trans Am
SS = WS6
SLP performance pkg SS = Firehawk
The Z28 and Formula are the V6 body with a V8 engine and components.
The sport package is an appearance upgrade for the Z and the TA is an appearance upgrade to the Formula.
SS and WS6 have same upgrades over the Z and TA ram air, suspension, 17 inch wheels and 3 inch exhaust regardless of different companies
SLP performance SS and Firehawk come with upgrades included in SS and WS6 but with w/Lid and exhaust and they boast a 345 hp rating. Firehawk just uses different company so the hood and spoiler is a bit different looking.
Last edited by Black01_Z; Jan 4, 2003 at 01:15 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 250
From: michigan
you guys are making this power rating this way too big an issue. the dealership i work for is the largest selling corvette dealer in the area. if you ask the guys that buy them they'll tell you the camaro get's the "corvette engine" like the LS1 is suddenly titled as a vette engine. it's just another engine in the line up. hell, most of them are dumb enough to think the LS1 and LS6 is still a 350. they buy the vette for status and the rest of the car. how would they sell them if the numbers were the same? easily, people that are there to buy a vette, don't buy a camaro. the vette is an entirely different animal and not only has light years better suspension, but better brakes, better areodynamic's, and over all many stronger parts. as for the hp, the vette does have more hp at the flywheel with it's much better air intake set up and much better exhuast system. after the flywheel, it's downhill from there on the hp. the 345hp package on the ss/firehawk i feel for the most part fixed the issue's of the flywheel loss with the exception of the y-pipe. some of the advantage of the ram air cars doesn't show up since the dyno is done with the hood up and no high speed air coming at it which is where it would pick up a bit on the vette in flywheel hp. i figure the standard ss/ws6 cars are around 340 to 345hp actual and the LS1 vette is around 350 to 355hp actual. at the tires, this all changes over. for quarter mile, the vette picks up with areodynamic's and better breathing capabilities on the high end.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,254
From: Darien, IL, usa (Chicago W.Suburbs)
Originally posted by chevy qc
you guys are making this power rating this way too big an issue. the dealership i work for is the largest selling corvette dealer in the area. if you ask the guys that buy them they'll tell you the camaro get's the "corvette engine" like the LS1 is suddenly titled as a vette engine. it's just another engine in the line up. hell, most of them are dumb enough to think the LS1 and LS6 is still a 350. they buy the vette for status and the rest of the car. how would they sell them if the numbers were the same? easily, people that are there to buy a vette, don't buy a camaro. the vette is an entirely different animal and not only has light years better suspension, but better brakes, better areodynamic's, and over all many stronger parts. as for the hp, the vette does have more hp at the flywheel with it's much better air intake set up and much better exhuast system. after the flywheel, it's downhill from there on the hp. the 345hp package on the ss/firehawk i feel for the most part fixed the issue's of the flywheel loss with the exception of the y-pipe. some of the advantage of the ram air cars doesn't show up since the dyno is done with the hood up and no high speed air coming at it which is where it would pick up a bit on the vette in flywheel hp. i figure the standard ss/ws6 cars are around 340 to 345hp actual and the LS1 vette is around 350 to 355hp actual. at the tires, this all changes over. for quarter mile, the vette picks up with areodynamic's and better breathing capabilities on the high end.
you guys are making this power rating this way too big an issue. the dealership i work for is the largest selling corvette dealer in the area. if you ask the guys that buy them they'll tell you the camaro get's the "corvette engine" like the LS1 is suddenly titled as a vette engine. it's just another engine in the line up. hell, most of them are dumb enough to think the LS1 and LS6 is still a 350. they buy the vette for status and the rest of the car. how would they sell them if the numbers were the same? easily, people that are there to buy a vette, don't buy a camaro. the vette is an entirely different animal and not only has light years better suspension, but better brakes, better areodynamic's, and over all many stronger parts. as for the hp, the vette does have more hp at the flywheel with it's much better air intake set up and much better exhuast system. after the flywheel, it's downhill from there on the hp. the 345hp package on the ss/firehawk i feel for the most part fixed the issue's of the flywheel loss with the exception of the y-pipe. some of the advantage of the ram air cars doesn't show up since the dyno is done with the hood up and no high speed air coming at it which is where it would pick up a bit on the vette in flywheel hp. i figure the standard ss/ws6 cars are around 340 to 345hp actual and the LS1 vette is around 350 to 355hp actual. at the tires, this all changes over. for quarter mile, the vette picks up with areodynamic's and better breathing capabilities on the high end.
VETTE = OVER RATED
