So basically the SS is better because it had standard features, that you could get with a Z28 if you payed a little more? Besides wheels, wing, hood?

You can argue this all you want, but facts are facts: put a Z28 next to an SS (Assuming a similarly geared car, and similar Transmission) and it comes down to who is a better driver.

 

I totally agree, and if you'd take the time to READ my previous posts instead of just jumping on the last post, you'd see that I stated very clearly that there was no power difference, but wider tires and a short throw shifter do help do they not? Thats a fact of racing there, and in your words a fact is a fact. And yes, even with those plusses it still boils down to a driver's race. That also depends on what kind of racing you are doing. W/the better handling characteristics form the larger wheel/tire combo I'm positive an SS would outperform a Z in autocross.

And to answer your first question, yes a package that comes with all the stuff standard is considered better. Thats why they retain their resale values better. Thats like saying a Z06 is no better than a regular C5 because you could make the C5 perform like a Z06. So which one is worth more an SS or a Z or even a SS clone? The true SS is, and thats a fact of economics. Hows the depreciation on your Z going? My SS is hanging in there pretty well.

 

Resale isn't an issue right now, BUT I'd say its hanging in there pretty well
It is plain and simple had I wanted an SS, I would have bought an SS.
I make more than enough money that the price wasn't an issue.

I am unsure if the SS will hold its value better than any other Camaro...
Yes the SS will usually always have cost more than any other model from the lot, so the fact that they are worth more is simple...
Whether or not they are worth more in relation to the initial price vs the rest of the line up I have no clue. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Yes I agree the Shifter and Wheels make a slight difference, but enough that it would be a serious performance package over the regular Z28? It is essentially more of a looks thing that a serious upgrade in my mind.
And to compare a Z06 to a C5 is really not the same as a Z28 VS. SS.
The Z06 is a C5 with Suspension, Wheels, Apprearance upgrades, and most importantly, Better Block, Heads & Cam, et al.
The only way a C5 would beat a Z06 is a race is through severe driver error on the Z06 driver's part.

 

LOL that hurst shifter was available in all '99 up ls-1 fbodies, I believe. In fact, my '98 came with one, I demanded it from the dealer before I paid for my car. They did it as a courtesy for $25 (R&R, and installation/cost of the rubber boot). ls-1 fbodies (all of them) have either 3.23 or 3.42, depending on auto or manual, your SS has nothing to do with that. z-rated tires are standard on all ls-1 vehicles. And as you said, yes, the 17" wheels do indeed LOOK better. As for the handling, that's about the only real advantage an SS/ws-6/firehawk has, but few people actually do autocross/ track racing in street cars. Most racing that we do done is straight line. That is where the ss has a slight advantage, and 'vette really shines. So you beat one from a roll on the highway. Congrats, now try it on my twisty back roads. The vette is an all around performance car, not just a straight line racer. Not only that, but they're a sh*tload more fun to drive. Not saying I don't adore my car, but a vette is a vette. Overrated? Sure, in the 1/4 mile. As one of the best all-around bang-for-the-buck perforamnce sports vehicles in all of automotive history? indeed.

 

You have a nack for taking things out of contex and getting your info wrong. There ARE LS1's w/ 2.73 gears. 3.23 was an option on the A4 Z.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525934

Better know your info or get owned.

So you were lucky enough to have a dealer that threw in a hurst shifter, most won't and they sure aren't standard equipment for the Z as you prove with your statement.
Throwing in the handling of the Vette is rich coming from someone who was bashing the SS for being ONLY an appearance package. Like I said, I've driven both and the SS will outhandel the Z. So again, what was your point? This sounds like a ricer's arguement anyway. "You beat me but mine can out handle yours in autocross."
Bang for the buck? A few suspension mods to the SS costing less than a Vette w/the cost of the SS added in and it will handle very well. Sorry, but if you drop the cash for a Vette might as well get the Z06 (that you brought up in a prior post). Now thats bang for the buck.

 

lol oh no, I'll get a smiley face that says "owned," might have to give up on life after that. The SS/ws-6 is an appearance package. I'm sorry you can't cope with this. Yes, suspension mods. LOL For the extra ~$3500ish you shelled out for your SS, I can have a ram air hood--that actually works, I might add, and a hell of a handling suspension package. I didn't mean to say there are NO fbodies with 2.73 gears, I was correcting you saying that the 3.23 is the "performance" gearing, simple error. As far as stock suspension for stock suspension, your SS won't outhandle a z28 by all that much. You don't exactly have a stage III or II racing suspension. You get bilstein shocks and "17x"9 wheels, and a minimally upgraded differential. Wow, not like I couldn't pick those up being so rare. the suspension on an SS isn't even close to the performance of any aftermarket suspension, or a stage 1 suspension, much less 2 or 3+. You're not driving a high-end performance car, you have to come to grips with this. we're driving entry-mid level sports cars, not high-enders. That is what a vette is. Why WOULDN'T I bring up the handling? Aerodynamics? Top speed? Acceleration? Look/feel of driving it? It's an all-around performer. That's what TRUE sports cars are about-- it's a Vette. It's not just a straight-line car like an SS, or a z28. Sure, our cars handle decently, but the handling is a HUGE part of what makes a vette a vette. People buy fbodies cuz they want to drag race, go fast from a roll, or a highway punch. Very few of us actually race autocross, or road courses. Since when was discussing every aspect of a sports car a "ricer" thing to do? I'm glad you're happy with your SS, but like the folks who BUILD THE CARS say, it's an "appearance package," you can't argue with the sticker. The .02g on the skidpad you pull over a z28 or T/a with your minimal suspension upgrades could easily be remedied by a good driver, or some decent tires.

 

If you're that jealous, just go buy an SS.

Albeit minimal, the SS DOES handle better than a Z28 off the showroom floor (I've owned both). Many people buy SS/WS6 cars to have a genuine, unique (I use that word lightly), top of the line, F-body. I didn't buy my SS because it's quicker than a Z28 and I'm sure most SS owners share my opinion. I'd rather come out to my garage and see an SS sitting there than a Z28. That's just my personal opinion.

 

Couldn't agree with you more bowtie.

Birch, you once again show your ability to take things out of context and get information wrong. If you had actually read my post you would have seen where I clearly stated that the 3.23 was optional for the Z's. So you either can't read well or are trying to cover up your ignorance. More wrong info: The SS's did NOT come w/bilstein shocks, that too was an option. The Auburn carrier, also an option on the SS, not standard. Lets see you cover those up. I also NEVER stated that I thought the SS had a stage 2 or 3 suspension. I just stated the simple FACT that it handles better. You just supported my statement then blew it out of context.
So you think you can get your Z to compare to an SS for $3500? Ok, the hood you mention. Thats a minimum of $1500 for purchase price, shipping and painting (you do want it to match don't you?). Wheels, ~$1000 at least for 17x9 w/tires. There goes $2500 already and you still have the blue book value of a stock Z28. Thats not even getting into the other differences mentioned albeit mostly appearance. I know, I ran the numbers when I was buying a car. It would have cost me more to buy a 00 Z and upgrade it to be optioned like my SS than it did for me to buy my 00 SS.
As for a more funtional ramair, if you really want to think ramair makes that big of difference go right ahead, and it is a total mute point when you bring in the WS6. Notice I never mentioned it as something performance oriented. You just can't accept that there is a bit more to a SS/WS6 than appearance. I readily admit it is mostly appearance, but there is some performance also.

As for the Vette being so much better at handling. You could take your Z and bolt on some suspension mods and handle better for less than what a Vette would cost. Thats figuring in the price of your car too. There are plenty of f-bods that run autoX and run on road coarses, just because you don't doesn't mean there aren't many that do. I've seen B-bodies that would run with a stock Vette in autoX. Another thing against Vettes, repair costs.... Outside the engine they are more expensive to mod and repair. You wanted to talk about ALL aspects of the car right? I wouldn't deem a C5 a highend "sports" car either. More middle of the road. People like you are the ones that buy Vettes and then get pissed because they got beat in a drag or road race by an f-body.

BTW, just keep thinking SLP is God's gift to f-body performance.

Let me repeat this from an earlier post since some people can't seem to be able to read. I have nothing against Z28's. I looked at them while I was car shopping. I chose the SS for the price w/the options that I wanted. If I had found a nice Z w/a RA hood and 17" wheels and other options I wanted at a decent price, I'd probably be driving a Z or Formula.

 

since when was 3.23 optional on z's? LOL My 3.42s are standard equipment. Perhaps you're talking about automatic transmissions. Your SS doesn't have bilstein shocks? what DOES it have? That's about the only "suspension" upgrade an SS has over an fbody, maybe some stiffer springs, and some have the koni adjustable shocks. It's basically a tighter ride, but not quite enough to susbstantially whoop a z28, or t/a with a decent driver. The differential is the same? So you ARE telling me you bought an appearance package. Congrats. I can have an ultra-z hood for under $750 shipped, my uncle will paint it for a 12-pack of budweiser. Wheels/tires. 17" isn't exactly hard to come by, I can have them at any shop for under a grand, and since I'm not a fan of chrome, it will be even less expensive. with the $1750 I'm looking at saving over your SS, there's so much I could do. Am I jealous of your SS? no, frankly I think the new ones are mediocre at best. 10 spoke wheels look like *** to me, and the spoiler looks out of place in my opinion. I like the flat one. The hood looks neat, but hasn't been worth a damn since 1997. Sure, I shopped around too. I looked at everything. I don't like the SS, and the ws-6 was a little too expensive for me. And having owned z's in the past, and loved them, I chose another one. If you're such an SS expert, then you'd realize GM took over production of the SS a long time ago. They're simply fitted with a hood and spoiler by SLP, sometimes a lid and the center mount exhaust. There's really nothing unique about it, "limited production numbers." I use that term loosely. Sorry. The most unique cars out there are the aftermarket tuned cars. But there are thousands of SS's JUST LIKE YOURS lying around. It's about as unique as my z28.

Oh, and FYI, the z06 is technically a c5. It's a 5th gen corvette. It will outhandle most anything, out accelerate ferraris and lambos, and to top it off, you're looking at $60,000 tops, depending where you live. I'd consider it among the high-end sports cars. Maybe you're trying to make yourself feel better by calling it a "mid-level" sports car. Your car isn't an all-around performer. Corvettes are. It's quite simple.

 

By the way, greed, the 1le suspension was dropped by SLP in 1999, and brought back in 2001. So, your '00 SS's suspension is the same as any old z28 and trans-am out there save for the shocks, but you failed to purchase that option. The only Difference in handling of your SS over a z28/trans-am is the wheels. LOL You paid for an appearance package. Just accept it. Thought you were some kind of expert so before you start dishing nonsense out, maybe YOU should get YOUR facts straight. But in all actuality, that probably adds to the uniqueness factor of your z28 with the SS appearance package.

Oh, and whoever the guy is who said SS owners don't think their cars are any faster? LOL think again. TONS of people really believe that 325, 330, and 345 hp crap, but I DO respect your opinion. Like I said before, I'm not jealous, and I'm glad you guys are happy with your SS/ws-6/firehawk cars, it's just not for me.

 

Just like many Z28 owners buy into the 305 and 310 hp rating. Get over it.

Standard SSs have stiffer springs, thicker swaybars, and obviously bigger wheels tires. It makes a difference. If you weren't jealous, you wouldn't be bashing the SS.

Just as rare as your Z28? lol I'm pretty sure (don't have the production numbers in front of me) they produced less SSs from 98-02 than total Camaros were produced in any given single year.

You are arguing with yourself in most of your posts. Nobody is claiming the SS will destroy the Z28 on a roadcourse or that it is quicker in a straight line, etc. Will a base SS be quicker around a roadcourse than a Z28, given the same driver? Yes. There is a quantifiable difference in the handling and the SS rides better and looks better IMO. I'll enjoy getting looks in my SS while you drive your plain looking Z28.

 

lol I'm not bashing the SS, simply stating that the dealer/manufacturer/slp designates it as an "appearance package." Hood, wheels shocks, springs, sway bar. All of which I could have for a fraction of the difference between an SS and my z28- and have a truly unique car. People have a hard time accepting this. Yes, lots of people DO buy into the 305/310 hp... the problem with that theory is, there IS a difference. 2001-2002 slightly less aggressive cam, but ls-6 intake. That DOES add up to about a 5hp difference. I see SS cars every day. Several of my friends own them-- in fact, I know more people with ws-6 and SS cars than I know with regular old z28 and trans-ams. They're not exactly hard to come by-- in my area anyway. Maybe it's different where you live, but out here, it seems like everyone has an SS or ws-6. Jealous? LOL I'm rebuilding a 1994 zr-1 in my garage right now-- THAT is a limited production car. Admiral Blue, one of 56 made in this color, and out of a total of 448 zr-1s for 1994. that's less than half of the BLACK SS cars made for ONE year. A TOTAL of 6939 zr-1s were built over 5 years. LOL That's less than ONE year of SS cars and ws-6 cars, firehawks, whatever. I don't want lectured about uniqueness, and limited production on a car that's 1 out of 40,000. It's not rare, it never will be, and that's why a lot of people buy them--that or they're rookies who really believe they're that much faster. I'm sorry. But it sure LOOKS cool, thanks to its appearance package. I'm not bashing them, and like i've said a few times before, I'm glad you guys like your cars, but it wasn't worth it TO ME. Just trying to set a few records straight.

 

Didn't want this to turn into a flame war, it started out as a discussion about corvettes-- which are still an all-around better car, and it's hard to argue this, but some people have managed.

 

This is a pointless argument. I am agreeing with what you're saying, yet you still argue with me. The SS package is predominantly an appearance package with some minor suspension upgrades that allow it somewhat better handling. We can all agree with that statement I think. I wasn't preaching about uniqueness...again, read my post and stop sticking your own biases into your interpretations of what I am saying.

Anyways, this has been a waste of time.

 

Thats exactly what I've been saying.

Birch, I have yet to claim to have the 1LE suspension. And yet this becomes another demonstration of you lack of reading comprehension. I know AD/HD kids with better reading comprehension than you have shown. If you had read my post you would have seen where I stated that the bilstien shocks were an option NOT standard. I also NEVER said the SS option wasn't designated as an appearance package, just that it did more than just add looks.
I have also ran the numbers and even posted you some numbers, and you can not build a Z28 with hood, spoiler, wheels/tires, and suspension for a fraction of what an SS costs. Ya, you may have a truly unique car to you, but it'll still be worth what a plain Z28 is.

If you're going to set records straight at least get your informantion straight. You are continually taking things out of context, arguing a point that no one brought up or trying to argue against. The 3.42 gears for instance. All M6s have 3.42s. I clearly state 3.23 for A4's in multiple posts. Maybe you need to take notes while you read so you can retain the information others have brought up instead of fabricating things that you think we wrote. It becomes extremely annoying when you continually put words in our mouths.