Hello, My question is about the fourth gens with a hardtop.
Are they alot stiffer than the T-top or just stiff for a F body?

Thanks in advanced.

 

There is no discernible difference in stiffness between a hardtop and a t-top 4th gen.

 

Sweet. So t-top is basically a rigid semi-convertible. Though subframe connectors would help any unibody car, right? Are welded on better than bolt on?

 

The presence on the two large beams in the roof, directly above the side windows, provides a significant increase in torsional and bending rigidity. Go to the Appearance forum, and take a look at the "sticky" on T-top conversion. After removing the glued-on composite roof panel, there are two large beams that need to be cut away to make the T-top installation possible. It would be short-sighted to suggest that those structural elements do not provide increased rigidity.

http://gripenfelter.fortunecity.com/conversion.html

 

Just about every T-Top 4th Gen has creases in the rear quarters, while I've yet to ever see any in Hard-Tops (Or Verts for that matter)

Although I do believe that Sub Frame connectors solve the problem

 

Neither one of my cars had creases in the rear 1/4's...

I doubt t-top cars collapse like some people think- but I'm sure the hardtop car would def be more rigid.

 

Thanks for the replies. I am interested in a LS1 SS/WS6. I am leaning towards the WS6 since I have never owned a Firebird , but since all of them our T Tops, I am strongly considering going on wild safari looking for a hardtop SS.

SFCs are a option, but I woukd rathe rpsend the money on general upkeep than having to do add-ons which I would rather see the $ go to long tubes or such. Thanks

 

Well I wouldn't let T-tops scare you away You should get the car you really want, it's not like the car will split on 1/2 just because of the T-Tops, their not that bad

 

The fenders on my 94 T-top don't have any wrinkles. The car didn't even get SFC's until two years after I had the 800HP/800lb-ft drivetrain installed. Never had a rattle in 16 years. Although it now has SFC's integrated with a 6-point roll bar. Buddy of mine was running low 8's with a 1,350HP 30th SS convertible, and there was definitely some "twist" in the chassis, even with a full NHRA-certifed cage.

I wouldn't worry about the 4th Gen T-tops.... they are solid, just not quite as solid at a hardtop.

 

My information is secondhand, but the original source is an engineer at GM who worked on the project. There is a difference, but it is negligible. I don't know whether the measurements were taken with the T-tops in or out.

You've got to be making that up. Post some pics for proof. I've never seen a creased rear quarter on a 4th gen (even on one that was in a ~100mph front-end collision), and I drive the hell out of mine. 95,000 miles on it, no creases.

 

Look I'm not trying to be dick here... But I've seen more creased quarters than not on T-Top Cars Hell my car has them... It's not like a huge crease where you go holly $#^%, it's a small little line that get's noticed when you look closely... And trust me once you see it you'll problem notice more cars with them.

I'm sure there are cars that don't have them, and either way it's not that big of a deal.... But to me it shows that T-tops are not a strong as Hard Tops (Surprise Surprise)

Now would I go saying T-Top cars are worthless and should be avoided HELL NO!!! I feel every F-body should have T-Tops (or be a vert), sort of defines the car to me

Remind me in the spring, once I pull the car out of the garage, and I'll try to take pics that show off my crease awesomeness.

 

My 95 Z has over 200K miles and my passenger side rear 1/4 is creased.

Though I will say the 4th gens held up well. My Dad bought a new 84 Z with T-Tops when I was a kid and I remember after one year you had to close the door more than once to get it closed tight.

 

I agree. Scott S. even said there was no difference. The cars were designed to have TTops from the start.

My car has 156k and its got perfect quarters.

Also, if you in MI you should be on mifbody.com

 

I wouldnt go so far as to say they were designed to have t-tops. They are designed so it is easy to be made into a t-top at the factory.

 

I know my 3rd gen F-Bird w/T-Tops flexed a lot. I used to autocross it. At that time, the rules required you to remove the T-Tops. When the event was over and I put the T-Tops back in I could see daylight under the front edge of the T-Top. It would close back up after a few miles of city driving with the T-Tops in place. Recently, I autocrossed a 2002 F-Bird. But they didn't require me to remove the T-Tops so I left them in. I didn't notice any gaps or issues after the event. but I would bet that a hardtop body is stiffer than a T-Top car, especially with the tops removed.