Help! Camaro down! Possible stuck injector
09-12-2010, 04:53 AM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
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Help! Camaro down! Possible stuck injector
Hey all,
I was cruising along the freeway this evening and had to pass an idiot in a tiny little car riding the *** of the truck in front of him, so I stepped on the gas and got the rpms up and just as I got around him I developed a bad miss, and had just enough power to keep it at about 60-65mph but not much faster, it was responding to my peddle inputs a little weird, I would push the peddle and get almost a bogging feeling and then it would pick up a little but still very little power.
I managed to make it down the freeway another couple miles with the problem seemingly getting worse and worse, and as I drove I could literally watch my gas gauge just dropping, and after about 2-3 miles I went from just under a half tank to bone dry (literally), so I pulled off onto surface streets and turned the corner and it ran out of fuel.
Pulled it home and yanked the intake off which had some oil residue infront of the butterflies, nothing excessive but a little more then what I would call normal. I also noticed the smell of unburned fuel coming from the intake, so I started pulling driver-side plugs and on the 3rd plug when it came out an entire cylinders worth of fuel dumped onto the floor, and I looked closely at it and there was no visible water in it, looked like pure fuel. I then removed the driver-side valve cover and everything was intact and looked fine, no dropped valves or anything weird.
So I'm thinking stuck injector, the LT1 is the original factory motor with 200,098 miles on it, everything except the Opti, water pump, and oil pump is original. Religious Mobil1 changes, leaking rear main seal, Rest is in my signature.
My questions for you guys are:
1) Can a injector stuck wide open cause that much fuel loss? just under half a tank in a few miles is a lot..
2) If you guys think that's too much fuel loss for a single open injector (like I do) and say I have a few injectors stuck open due to a wiring issue, would I be able to drive a couple miles with more then 1 stuck injector? (I doubt it)
3) Assuming no wiring issues, can I rebuild a stuck injector like I am describing, or am I looking at a replacement?
4) If I do end up needing injector(s) I found re-man's for $32 and new Airtex/Wells for $75, and would like to know if I need to replace them all, or if you guys think I can get away with just replacing the failing ones.
5) And if I have to replace all of them if there are any kits out there i.e. Racetronix or other that I could save some money on. (I don't have money for this !@#$ right now).
It got late so I will have more info tomorrow, if I can get my laptop going I'll get a snapshot from the computer and see if there are any codes, the SES light never came on. I will also pull the other 5 plugs out and check them.
As always, thanks guys in advance for all the help, tips, info, and knowledge, it is greatly appreciated!
I was cruising along the freeway this evening and had to pass an idiot in a tiny little car riding the *** of the truck in front of him, so I stepped on the gas and got the rpms up and just as I got around him I developed a bad miss, and had just enough power to keep it at about 60-65mph but not much faster, it was responding to my peddle inputs a little weird, I would push the peddle and get almost a bogging feeling and then it would pick up a little but still very little power.
I managed to make it down the freeway another couple miles with the problem seemingly getting worse and worse, and as I drove I could literally watch my gas gauge just dropping, and after about 2-3 miles I went from just under a half tank to bone dry (literally), so I pulled off onto surface streets and turned the corner and it ran out of fuel.
Pulled it home and yanked the intake off which had some oil residue infront of the butterflies, nothing excessive but a little more then what I would call normal. I also noticed the smell of unburned fuel coming from the intake, so I started pulling driver-side plugs and on the 3rd plug when it came out an entire cylinders worth of fuel dumped onto the floor, and I looked closely at it and there was no visible water in it, looked like pure fuel. I then removed the driver-side valve cover and everything was intact and looked fine, no dropped valves or anything weird.
So I'm thinking stuck injector, the LT1 is the original factory motor with 200,098 miles on it, everything except the Opti, water pump, and oil pump is original. Religious Mobil1 changes, leaking rear main seal, Rest is in my signature.
My questions for you guys are:
1) Can a injector stuck wide open cause that much fuel loss? just under half a tank in a few miles is a lot..
2) If you guys think that's too much fuel loss for a single open injector (like I do) and say I have a few injectors stuck open due to a wiring issue, would I be able to drive a couple miles with more then 1 stuck injector? (I doubt it)
3) Assuming no wiring issues, can I rebuild a stuck injector like I am describing, or am I looking at a replacement?
4) If I do end up needing injector(s) I found re-man's for $32 and new Airtex/Wells for $75, and would like to know if I need to replace them all, or if you guys think I can get away with just replacing the failing ones.
5) And if I have to replace all of them if there are any kits out there i.e. Racetronix or other that I could save some money on. (I don't have money for this !@#$ right now).
It got late so I will have more info tomorrow, if I can get my laptop going I'll get a snapshot from the computer and see if there are any codes, the SES light never came on. I will also pull the other 5 plugs out and check them.
As always, thanks guys in advance for all the help, tips, info, and knowledge, it is greatly appreciated!
09-12-2010, 07:14 AM
#2
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,648
Pull the rails up with the injectors in place, and turn the key on to pressure the pump. Look for fuel leaking out.
Check the fuel pressure regulator vacuum compensation line for raw fuel.
Driving the car with it dumping that much fuel could result in rapid oil dilution, destroying the bearings, or a cylinder could hydrolock and destroy the engine.
Check the fuel pressure regulator vacuum compensation line for raw fuel.
Driving the car with it dumping that much fuel could result in rapid oil dilution, destroying the bearings, or a cylinder could hydrolock and destroy the engine.
09-12-2010, 08:36 PM
#3
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 82
I pulled the rail and all I can do is prime the fuel with the key on/off, trying to crank the motor doesn't work it wont fully turn over, I may have to pull all the plugs out first..
But on priming I dont think I saw any noticeable amount of fuel come out.
But on priming I dont think I saw any noticeable amount of fuel come out.
09-12-2010, 08:52 PM
#4
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,648
You don't need to crank the engine.... in fact you don't want to even try. When the system "primes" the rail pressure should reach 40psi. If it doesn't build pressure, there's something wrong. Even them, turn the key on and off a few times, and it should build pressure. Put a gauge on it to be sure. If you had a leaking injector, one stuck open - which is what you asked about - there would be fuel dripping out of the injector(s) as soon as it primed.
Did you check the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator?
Did you check the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator?
09-12-2010, 11:05 PM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,709
You can also use the prime connector, instead of the key.
09-17-2010, 06:33 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 82
Well, I found one issue, the fuel pressure regulator is squirtin more then a (insert inappropriate reference to a **** star here), which would explain why it's not running..
Weird because that was the first thing I checked and it wasn't leaking initially, maybe it's leaking so bad it loses so much pressure by the time I prime it, get out, and pull the line, it already lost pressure.
Do you guys know of an easy Weldon or Aeromotive regulator that I can just drop in without having to make the switch to all braided line and AN fittings? At some point I will upgrade the fuel system once the 383 is built, but just don't have the budget for it right this second.
Weird because that was the first thing I checked and it wasn't leaking initially, maybe it's leaking so bad it loses so much pressure by the time I prime it, get out, and pull the line, it already lost pressure.
Do you guys know of an easy Weldon or Aeromotive regulator that I can just drop in without having to make the switch to all braided line and AN fittings? At some point I will upgrade the fuel system once the 383 is built, but just don't have the budget for it right this second.
09-18-2010, 03:37 AM
#7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 82
So I replaced the badly leaking fuel pressure regulator, the rail now holds pressure like a champ, no leaking injectors, re-installed the rail, pulled all the spark plugs, 1-4 were showing normal wear for 30,000-40,000 miles or so, 5-8 were pretty black though with a couple carbon deposits around the lip of the metal base, the electrode was somewhat black but I've seen worse. Drained 5 quarts worth of fuel diluted oil, and I only had about 4.5 quarts of oil in it to begin with, new filter, and filled it back up with Mobil1 15w-50. I also ran the oil through a rag as it was draining out looking for any metal of any kind, and ran a rare earth magnet through the drained oil and found no visible metal at all.
My ignition consists of a MSD Street Fire controller and coil, AC Delco wires right now, and TR55IX's. My question is does it sound like the plugs are too fouled to fire, they were in good shape before the fuel regulator went south, and I only drove 5 miles on the wounded engine.
I decided to try and crank the engine with new oil in it, and it turned over at first a good 5-7 rotations, and then slowed down until it stopped, I tried to crank it again and got about 1-2 rotations out of it. It had a sound similar to an engine with no plugs in it, where it just smoothly turns over with no resistance.
When the engine quit it ran out of fuel, and there were no odd noises, ticking sounds, aside from it missing pretty bad it didn't seem hurt enough to need to pull over and shut it off just yet.
What do you guys think, did I toast the rings maybe, I would think if I spun a bearing I would hear something? I should compression test the damn cylinders, but I'm worried about causing more damage at this point, not to mention I dont think it'll turn over even without all the plugs in it at this point.
My ignition consists of a MSD Street Fire controller and coil, AC Delco wires right now, and TR55IX's. My question is does it sound like the plugs are too fouled to fire, they were in good shape before the fuel regulator went south, and I only drove 5 miles on the wounded engine.
I decided to try and crank the engine with new oil in it, and it turned over at first a good 5-7 rotations, and then slowed down until it stopped, I tried to crank it again and got about 1-2 rotations out of it. It had a sound similar to an engine with no plugs in it, where it just smoothly turns over with no resistance.
When the engine quit it ran out of fuel, and there were no odd noises, ticking sounds, aside from it missing pretty bad it didn't seem hurt enough to need to pull over and shut it off just yet.
What do you guys think, did I toast the rings maybe, I would think if I spun a bearing I would hear something? I should compression test the damn cylinders, but I'm worried about causing more damage at this point, not to mention I dont think it'll turn over even without all the plugs in it at this point.
Last edited by dStruct; 09-18-2010 at 03:44 AM. Reason: Typo
09-23-2010, 08:05 AM
#8
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Upstate New York,USA
Posts: 1,791
If you lost bearing material then your oil you just took out should have had some 'glitter' (bearing material in flake form) in it. Sounds like you didn't have that issue since you appear to have examined it.
I had my adjustable FPR lose it's diaphram and was pumping fuel into the intake via the vacuum source. I put a new stock one on there and, like you, problem solved.
I had my adjustable FPR lose it's diaphram and was pumping fuel into the intake via the vacuum source. I put a new stock one on there and, like you, problem solved.
So I replaced the badly leaking fuel pressure regulator, the rail now holds pressure like a champ, no leaking injectors, re-installed the rail, pulled all the spark plugs, 1-4 were showing normal wear for 30,000-40,000 miles or so, 5-8 were pretty black though with a couple carbon deposits around the lip of the metal base, the electrode was somewhat black but I've seen worse. Drained 5 quarts worth of fuel diluted oil, and I only had about 4.5 quarts of oil in it to begin with, new filter, and filled it back up with Mobil1 15w-50. I also ran the oil through a rag as it was draining out looking for any metal of any kind, and ran a rare earth magnet through the drained oil and found no visible metal at all.
My ignition consists of a MSD Street Fire controller and coil, AC Delco wires right now, and TR55IX's. My question is does it sound like the plugs are too fouled to fire, they were in good shape before the fuel regulator went south, and I only drove 5 miles on the wounded engine.
I decided to try and crank the engine with new oil in it, and it turned over at first a good 5-7 rotations, and then slowed down until it stopped, I tried to crank it again and got about 1-2 rotations out of it. It had a sound similar to an engine with no plugs in it, where it just smoothly turns over with no resistance.
When the engine quit it ran out of fuel, and there were no odd noises, ticking sounds, aside from it missing pretty bad it didn't seem hurt enough to need to pull over and shut it off just yet.
What do you guys think, did I toast the rings maybe, I would think if I spun a bearing I would hear something? I should compression test the damn cylinders, but I'm worried about causing more damage at this point, not to mention I dont think it'll turn over even without all the plugs in it at this point.
My ignition consists of a MSD Street Fire controller and coil, AC Delco wires right now, and TR55IX's. My question is does it sound like the plugs are too fouled to fire, they were in good shape before the fuel regulator went south, and I only drove 5 miles on the wounded engine.
I decided to try and crank the engine with new oil in it, and it turned over at first a good 5-7 rotations, and then slowed down until it stopped, I tried to crank it again and got about 1-2 rotations out of it. It had a sound similar to an engine with no plugs in it, where it just smoothly turns over with no resistance.
When the engine quit it ran out of fuel, and there were no odd noises, ticking sounds, aside from it missing pretty bad it didn't seem hurt enough to need to pull over and shut it off just yet.
What do you guys think, did I toast the rings maybe, I would think if I spun a bearing I would hear something? I should compression test the damn cylinders, but I'm worried about causing more damage at this point, not to mention I dont think it'll turn over even without all the plugs in it at this point.
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