bad93z

I have an 84 cutlass supreme with a 350 from an 81 camaro. When I purchased the car the guy said it had a new starter on it. I bought the car and drove it home....4 months later and 5 starters i'm running out of ideas lol. Within days of buying the car the "new" starter started grinding. i took it off, shimmed it and reinstalled...lasted a few weeks. Did this again with the second starter, and the 3rd(Which I had installed by a shop here in town just to see if it was me that was messing up lol)....Finally decided to just pull the tranny and replace the flexplate. Flexplate and starter number 4 went in...two days later..more grinding!! So....i decided to install a high torque mini starter thinking maybe that could help... but no. I've replaced the battery cables and the battery as well but still no luck. I can't figure out whats wrong. I've tried to think outside the box on this one. The engine leaks a little oil down onto the starter, but i can't see where that would affect anything. any ideas?

camaroLevi

well u got me there but if i were to guess and im no camaro scientist your ignition coil may have something to do with?

Guest47904

Explain the situation in more detail. For example, when cranking the engine over, does it lope like it's got high compression? Or does it crank a second and catch right away?

What does your battery voltage measure (with 2 people) while someone cranks it?

Have you shimmed the starter with the paper clip method or simply added shims until it's quieter?

Where is the timing set?

angel71rs

Are you sure it's grinding (ugly metal sound) or could the bendix be kicking out (free spinning sound from starter)?

I fixed a problem on a 442 once that turned out to be the bendix kicking out from lack of current going to the key terminal on starter solenoid. Turns out there was only one strand of wire feeding, causing the intermittent problem.

On Chevy starters, the key terminal of the solenoid is the one closest to the block. some solenoids have only that one terminal, some have 2, another one on the other side of the main feed cable connection. The second terminal outputs full 12v that goes up to ignition coil on points equipped cars during starts only.

If you suspect that it may be the bendix kicking out, the problem could be anywhere along the line for the key terminal feed wire. If a crimp terminal has been installed where it connects to solenoid, that is suspect #1. Crimp terminals are infamous for being intermittent, which is why I prefer to solder. Crimp terminals will stab you right in the back at the worst possible time, out in the middle of nowhere, or when it's time to crank it up and roll into the burnout box with God and everyone watching.

You can even hook up a seperate wire/switch to the key terminal to feed voltage to the solenoid. On my 71, I have a heavy duty push button switch ("normally open" type, can buy at Autozone) feeding voltage to a seperate wire hooked up to the key terminal. This is so I can bump the engine over when lashing the valves, and I can crank the engine over on hot days before I turn the ignition switch to "on". This helps prevent the "high compression lope" (starter struggles to spin engine) speedygonzales described.

bad93z

When I crank the engine it grinds, sometimes longer than others. I haven't measured the battery voltage, but i'll check that too. I shimmed the starter using the supplied guage rod and used that as my guide. I'll check the timing too.

I forgot to mention that sometimes when the starter doesn't grind it will crank once...pause...and then crank until the engine starts....but the battery is brand new as well as the positive cable

angel71rs

Starter bolts themselves can also cause grinding if they are the incorrect type or have crooked tips. Read this for more info:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432976

bad93z

Checked the voltage and the timing today...Voltage was hovering around 11.5-12.2 on start. Checked the timing as well and it was waaaaay advanced. I couldn't even see the mark on the harmonic balancer when I started...and had to give the distributor a quarter turn before i could get it back to zero....but the car still grinds because the teeth on my starter got demolished I'll replace it again and post my results

jg95z28

Have you tried shimming it yet? Back in the day some of those vintage 350s would cause problems and some guys would need to shim between the starter and the block to slightly change the gap to prevent grinding. (Even though sbc starters are typically one-size-fits-all, they really aren't.)

Guest47904

Of course you know to disconnect the vacuum line and plug it to check the timing.

Incidentally, the best timing at idle is "0". The manufacturers suggestion of slightly advanced is for emissions reasons.

The wrong timing in the advanced direction will kill starters by the way. Sorry it took you this long to find it.

The voltage you measured is ok for cranking but after the engine fired the battery voltage should be at least 14 volts.

I would also recommend that you check ALL the flywheel teeth before you button up yet another starter.

I would also recommend you use a paper clip to confirm proper starter gear clearance to the flywheel. Remember, shims on the bolt farthest away from the flywheel move the starter gear closer to the flywheel and shims on the other bolt do the opposite.

However I prefer a "clocked" starter drive to eliminate the need for shims altogether. Like this little jewel I've been using for 3 years:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku