Now that everyone has kissed & made up, I have excellent reason to believe Charlie knows what he's talking about, without going into details.

We both probally see a future Camaro replacement as a relatively small (perhaps Cobalt sized) rear drive coupe with a LS2 engine. But using the Velite as a safe size assumption, even though it's not very long and about as wide as the 4th gen, it's wheelbase makes the car seem a bit on the large side.

Is it too big for a Camaro? Not compared to other historical Camaro dimensions.

Is it a bit large for a Camaro in relation to today's car size classifications? Probally.

I think that's what Charlie is talking about. Not that the car is Monte Carlo-like in size, but that instead of shrinking the 5th gen's exterior to the 4th gen's interior size, the 5th gen's interior has grown in proportion to the 4th gen's exterior size.

Gee... I hope that made sense.

 

As we know, the Velite is a concept. A smaller than production concept.

 

The Torana is a sedan

 

Torana is a sedan, on a sport car chassis.

 

PM

 

PM back to you.

 

Ok, one of you PM me so I know wtf is going on!!









Well, I gave it a shot!
A Cobalt sized RWD coupe? NO WAY! G6 coupe size....ok, but I think that as long as the dimentions are less then 190" in length, 113" in wheel base, 54" in hight, and 64 in width, I think we could get a very cool Camaro.
Anything bigger then that, and it will be too big.

 

Well, that all depends on how you voted.

 

Guy are you suggesting a Cobalt-size Camaro with RWD and a V8? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Cobalt taller than the GTO.

 

Guionm, i have a question though. if we do get a smaller than expected Camaro, would it put it in a different class? are we talking toyota spyder or lotus elise in quality? and if we get a bigger than thought of Camaro will it have the engine to fit? nothing's more awkward than seeing a huge engine bay and the smallest of small blocks.
i picture the Camaro having an overal shape like this
http://users.belgacom.net/bn647098/p...etizione-4.jpg
http://www.carenthusiast.com/alfa/al...003_12_250.jpg

i hope that when GM says Camaro they mean it. i don't want this to sound rude. if they are going to rebadge and reshape a GTO, then why bother? same goes for a chevy styled solstice. if they are going to spend all that money in developing a camaro and not let it be original then why bother?

 

It will probably be heavier than the F4, but a bit lighter than the later F2s. I think it will be a bit heavier than the F4 because of updates to meet current and future safety standards.

 

I feel pretty confident in saying that if a new Camaro comes out, and it's Cobalt-sized... I've reached a point where I must move on...

Camaro would be bumped from my list totally, no matter what equipment if may have... GTO and Mustang would be the leaders for my money even when this car came out.

I just don't want a small, economy-sized car. Camaro has never been this, the entire time I have been alive.... that is 32 years.

 

OK, Charlie has effectively proved his point, I'll get off his back now, LOL.

So, moving on to more relevant questions:

As I said earlier, we know there will be a Zeta Chevy coupe. What is the probability that GM would release a Torana Camaro on the heels of the Zeta? I still see this as slim and none.

Waiting for Beta might mean the window of opportunity closes entirely, correct? Is internal support for Beta that strong? Is internal support for a Beta CAMARO that strong? Please separate the car from the chassis for a moment.

Second point to deliberate: You guys are assuming that 4th gen exterior dimensions with a larger interior to match is a bad thing. What if its not? You guys may want a small car in your hearts, but does today's market with SUVs and trucks running rampant really suggest a smaller coupe with cramped interior dimensions (specifically the back seat) would sell well in today's market?

I thought coupe buyers wanted utility and ergonomics? I thought Camaro's useless back seat was a hindrance in the market? I thought GTO's comparatively huge back seat was a plus in the market? A Zeta Camaro would likely provide greater interior comfort and flexibility not to mention a larger trunk. If you want men with small kids to be customers of this car then you are going to have to appeal to the utility they need.

I am just saying separate the pony car enthusiast ideal car from the practical car we need to sell in order to survive.

 

I want to be verrrry careful in the way I word this........

Does the architecture have strong support.....OMG YES!
Regarding Camaro and Beta, mmmm, need to be more careful here. Forget all that Pontiac Torana bullsh!t, (Pontiac is only interested in being the "American BMW" in marketing only, not product execution), no other car in the GM portfolio can have the volume and best fits this new architecture......than you guessed it.....Camaro. Apparently, the architecture also allows a sporty-sized exterior with a relatively large interior. Think, the inverse of the 4th gen.

Three issues here:
1) Like I said money, which is a temporary setback.

2) If a MonteCarlo/GTO like car already carries the the Camaro name....obviously, that's a problem.

3) If you were a marketing guy, and were given a long enough leash.....you just might want to use the Camaro name on anything you could....coupe, sedan, dog, cat.....who cares, it will help it sell. It has market recognition. Even more recognition than Dodge Charger.


I say, call the Zeta coupe Monte Carlo.

The Beta coupe should be out about the same time.

 

I might be wrong about this, but if I'm a GM marketing guy, knowing how tough the coupe market has been, I am going to throw a temper tantrum if corporate wants to give me two Chevy rear drive v8 mid sized coupes. It makes no sense.

Yes they will be different,but will they be different enough to both sell in adequate quantities?

If Beta truly is the PERFECT camaro, then that's great, what's anther three damn years on top of how long we've already waited plus the wait until 2008 (I thought it was 2007?). So fine, I'm basically at the point of not caring enough to give up and move on with my life (which is why a realistic Zeta Camaro within the next 3 years is so appealing) rather than stay on the edge of my seat for another 6 damn years.

Its like a tense crowd at a football game...if the game is intense the whole time, by the end of the game they will be deflated. You can't sustain enthusiasm indefinitely. I speak for most here to say we are flat worn out and I'm tired of caring at this point.

If we can have a Beta Camaro by 08 that would be great. I don't see how its possible given how long its taken to make the case for Zeta and how long it took SSR and others to reach production. We keep daydreaming of GM streamlining its processes and it never happens. 2008 MY is a little under 4 yrs away. Is it realistic to expect beta to be ready by then?

Is it REALISTIC to expect Chevrolet to market two similarly sized rear drive coupes concurrently? Can the market support it? Is beta really that cheap to manufacture? Will its weight and size and cost go up as it is readied for production just like all the other promising platforms have done?

Is this a case of the grass being greener on the other side? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?