Sorry man, I counldn't help it. I saw the hole and just couldn't pass it up. Hopefully everyone will find the humor in it and not just the not-so-subtle point behind the poll

Basically, do you think Z284ever is Zeta-bashing out of a rational fear that a Zeta based Camaro won't be a "good" Camaro (by his judgement and assumptions based on what he may know about Zeta, of which nothing is solid at this point)

Or, are his fears driving the "facts", i.e. are his passionate but not-very-well founded fears about a Zeta Camaro amounting to puting the cart before the horse, since other insiders don't seem to be sharing the same doom and gloom outlook?

I can understand being concerned about what seems to be developing, as we all would be, but with nothing firm about Zeta, how can any of us draw such rigid conclusions about what would make the "better" Camaro? Who died and made Z284ever the advocate of all that is good and Camaro-like?

 

Wow, never had a poll about me.

 

Don't you feel good on the inside now?

 

3 - 3

Z284Ever is hax0r1ng!

 

Not really.

 

Welcome to the big times.

I never had a poll about me either. But then again you never had a 4+ page missing person thread by not posting for a couple of days.

 

Z, please do not be insulted. I have no personal animus toward you and don't wish to offend you personally. I do, however, intend to call out what I see as an agenda driven Zeta bashing campaign.

You have a wish to see a 1st gen sized 5th gen. You have this perception that a 113 inch wheelbase Zeta MUST be too long for a Camaro, despite the fact that my Trans Am for example, at a whopping 196 inches long, has 50% of its length in overhands due to the smallish for modernity 101 inch wheelbase.

Despite your fears, it is quite possible to have a 113 inch wheelbase in a 186 inch long car, which would be roughly new GTO proportions in overall length with excellently small overhangs.

Now your latest fear is that GM is looking at putting Camaro on the Holden V chassis, even though it has been clearly stated Zeta is ALL-NEW. OF course the current GTO would have made a poor Camaro. But the new Zeta will almost certainly not be a visual carbon copy of the holden chassis. There's a reason they call it all-new.

I think you have in your mind what you want Camaro to be, and its not Zeta, so you've pushed debate here toward advocating we all wait longer for a Torana Camaro even though we know even less about Torana than we do Zeta, despite the fact we know Zeta will be built and will be flexible in manufacture.

 

More:

I dont' get how a Camaro that's totally new, based on an excellently engineered chassis, is a few inches shorter than a 4th gen but with a longer, better wheelbase, is a dissappointment?

Because its not pinto sized? Camaro has, since the beginning, been larger than compact vehicle. As long as its in the ballpark I'm cool with it. I'm more concerned with performance, content and overall look than some preconceived notion of the maximum exterior dimesions that would comprise the imaginary perfect Camaro.

Anything under 190 inches in length will be a win in my opinion. Anything under 53 inches in height will be a win in my opinion.

Lets talk about weight. the last of the F-bodies routinely weighed in at 3600 lbs, some more than that. Now everybody has decided somehow that a Camaro over 3400 lbs will be a 100% failure. Guy has already noted that IRS is heavy, and we should expect it to add 200 lbs to any car we get.

If we get a great looking car, with the Camaro badge, a 340-350hp 5.3L and T56, excellent handling with IRS rear, reasonable overall dimensions and it comes in at 3650 lbs that it will somehow be a huge dissappointment?

Maybe it will be for some of you who have set what may be unrealistic expectations, but not for me.

 

2 wonderful posts by Chris right there.

 

I know I am.

 

If we're talking 350hp (or under) and 3650 lbs (or over) we're talking about a car that takes one step back in performance from the LS1 engined F4. Still, the threat of a 5-seater that's nothing more than a rebadged GTO is the scary part.

The Camaro has always been a high performance 2+2, not some badge engineered 2-door sedan. That's what we're talking about. I really have to wonder if the Fbodfather left this board out for "job security" reasons or whether he knew there would be extreme fallout from a rebadged "Goat."

 

Hard not to take it personally, but what the heck, let 'er rip.

And I think that you may be making some assumptions yourself here, 186"....think bigger....maybe MUCH bigger.

You don't think the Holden chassis will be used? Fair enough.

But ask yourself...why doesn't GM purportedy use Sigma? It's too expensive...or so they say.
What's so expensive about, is it it's black metal? (HINT: NO) Or is it it's better than bargain basement suspension? (HINT: YES)
What do you think Sigma Lite was all about? Sigma, with a cheaper bargain basement suspension. And ask yourself this, how does Zeta get a sophisticated suspension, one with comparable dynamics to Sigma....and still be cheaper? Is it the cheaper blackmetal? (HINT: NO, metal is metal). It's cheaper because it doesn't get the suspension.

So, if you are a GM beancounter, comparing the cost of paying to substantially dumb down Sigma.....or using something that meets your specs....which is already in the system....which do you use? Figure it out.....as a GM BEANCOUNTER.

 

The difference is where you are getting your info. Save for the other insiders, anyone else concerned about Zeta has probably done so based on Z284ever's information and opinion, which we've generally all grown to trust.

So, are your fears based on first hand data or second hand supposition? That's the question at hand really. I see Z's hyperbole creating panic out there that by what I can tell isn't warranted, at least not yet.

I'm not going to go picket GM headquarters over a car that I don't even have specs or a pic of yet.

 

I see you feel very firmly on this Chris. That's good...I like people who take a stand. I don't mind ruffling your feathers though. I've ruffled some feathers at GM also. Luckily, I've also created some influential allies.

So I can only guess at your motivation.

But let me leave you with this thought.

Say you were someone from middle management at GM. Hmmm, oh, I don't know...maybe marketing. And you knew a RWD coupe was coming out. Maybe not ideal for a Camaro certainly.....but it sure would help promote your product if you could use that name. Sure beats Chevelle....or Excalibur, or whatever.

If you really didn't care very much...if you really didn't have much passion for the car......"Camaro" would be an awesome marketing tool for you....even if it really wasn't a Camaro.

And now, Chris 96 WS6 is your ally.

 

Thing is tho Z284ever, without GM Beancounters, there would be no GM at all, let alone any Camaro replacement. I know they are an easy target when we don't get what we want, but GM is a business, and if they need a value performance coupe, they need to look at places where they can save money. I'm sure everyone wants a Camaro that will have the same power and handling as a F430, but without it costing the same as an F430.

Since no Zeta based vehicles exist outside of the proving grounds as of yet, this is all just idle speculation.