For the Camaro to survive, it must have strong V6 sales. Pricing the Camaro 1-3k more will NOT help the Camaro stay alive. How many times since the 3rd Gen did the Camaro out sell the mustang? We should get a better car with the Camaro however; we should get it at the same or a little lower. Put a Equally equipped Camaro and Mustang next to each other. I would say for the average Joe (or Jane) most will go with the one that looks the best (Their opinion) and/or has the lower price.

GM needs to lower the MSRP on their cars to get rid of the rebates anyway. Why price the Camaro higher to begin with just to tack on rebates to bring the price down to a comparable level with the Mustang?

BTW, When you buy your Camaro, I'm sure the dealer won't mind adding on an extra 1-3K for you.

 

I agree, wheel hop can be nearly eliminated by correcting rear geometry, for take offs. And varying spring rates with road sensing strut/shocks and more than 1/2" of rubber on a 17" or 18" wheel. Ofcourse this may NOT end up being an "All out B@lls-to-the-Walls" configuration, but I believe a better ride can be had w/o compromising much performance. (And could be totally upgradeable.. )(The Vette's I've ridden in jarred badly on rough roads too, I believe due more to the non-existent sidewall rubber than anything else.)

 

Now lets go into the scenarios here:
Camaro has live rear axle:
Magazine says "The Camaro's return from hiatus has come back with a live rear axle that GM has tuned to make a ride comporable with the Mustang's. It has similar handling as the mustang as well. It boils down to personal preferance here."
Camaro has IRS
Magazine says "The Camaro returns with IRS which gives it an edge on the Mustang. It outhandles the Mustang and has a much better feeling ride. Even though the Camaro costs a little bit more than the Mustang every penny is worth it. Go out and pick up a Camaro"

 

Also with all the rebates GM offered and downsized their public opinion to a car "i got because it was cheaper and i could afford it better" i would think that a better Camaro (than the mustang) that costs around $1000 more would really help bring their image up.

 

Or they say "Mustang handling feels familiar, since it's using a suspension setup that was first used on the 1982 third gen f-bodies."

 

To put in my $.02 on the suspension debate: I really don't give a hoot so long as the ride is halfway decent. My '94 Z will tell you where every crack and expansion joint is. That's not a way to sell cars. Doesn't matter if it's LRA or IRS, it's got to be good.

Now that I've got that out of the way...

I've got a parts-bin question that I doubt anyone will be able to answer, but I want to try to get off of suspension.

1) All work was stopped on Zeta, yes. But, how far did they get before they switched projects? Exactly what pieces are ready for testing? (I highly doubt this one will be answered, but I threw it out to get people thinking)

And, for the follow-up...

2) How compatible are Zeta and Sigma? If it is true that the cowl height is too much, could you plug in the front of Zeta to get rid of that height? I've heard that Zeta was supposed to be modular; how modular is it? And, how much is done?

Does GM's all-encompasing "parts-bin" include vehicles still in design/testing? What about it's "offshore" divisions? How much testing does something from Europe or Australia, or even Canada have to go through to be certified for US use?

 

We are not in 1974 now are we.


If the GTO is to be a success, I think they should have a lower end model to support the performance version.. Lower end model that was designed in the first place with the GTO in mind, like in the past..So you could technically slap a GTO badge on it with performance options and it would work. Lower model optioned vehicles coud support the performancre model. Not just slap a badge on a Monaro and make it a niche vehicle, on a car that never had the GTO in mind when designed.. That obviously did not work well. And they need to do it to reflect the past GTO's image. Current version did NONE of this well.

 

That is never how it worked.

 

I feel that GM has two options regarding a new Camaro:
1) make it a parts-bin niche vehicle and make 40,000 - 50,000 a year and sell every one made (and be happy about it). Make a Z28 and an SS only, and make them faster than a Mustang GT and GT500. Include T-Tops but no convertible to save on costs.
or
2) make a world class car that appeals to a variety of people, not just enthusiasts. This would include v6, Z28, SS, convertible (available on all models), and every year or so offer a special model (RS, Berlinetta?).

Option 1 could conceivably get to market quickly, and be good enough to keep the Camaro faithful happy (for the most part). Option 2 would take longer to develop and produce, but would sell more and compete more directly with the Mustang offerings. Option 1 would probably make every drag racer happy, and it may work initially, but when the enthusiasm for a new Camaro wears off, would they still be able to sell 40,000+ a year. Option 2 makes more sense from a money-making standpoint, but unless it really is a world class car, and they advertise and perform updates/refreshes on a regular basis, it will see sales fall as well. My only problem with option 2 is that I don't see Camaro outselling the Mustang except for maybe a brief year or two, UNLESS GM takes it seriously and does build a world class car that beats the Mustang in every category. Even then though I question whether a Camaro could consistently beat Mustang sales, because it's appeal is not as wide-spread as the Mustangs. Because of this, it worries me that IF GM did make a world class Mustang beater, and it didn't out-sell the Mustang, they would pull the plug permanently, figuring they gave it their best shot and it still wasn't good enough.

 

 

The problem with a limited run Camaro is the same that GM has with all there short run niche vehicles.
1- limited numbers so less people can get them, which gives you market adjustment, which then pisses off enthusiasts that really want the car but cant afford the added cash, which lets sales tank and desire fall off and then GM has to boost it with a larger engine and hood scoops....sorry, thats the GTO.

It needs to be a volume car that people with V6 can enjoy the same style and performance as the guys and gals who pay for the big V8. That is what the alure is of the Mustang and the 300. That is what GM needs.

 

Thanks Chewy!

I don't have alot of time to type....but you said it all for me.

You are the man!

 

Wow, I just came to this website to ask this very question...and someone created a thread with a reply. Good thread bro. I still have to read pages 2-14, but my question was going to be "what will GM/Chevy do DIFFERENT from the past?" In other words, it already had a bigger engine, more sporty look, and options...but it was not enough to compete with the original pony car.

 

Do you care if that show-stopping Camaro costs $35-$40k?