Will Aveo RS become a hot hatch like the VW GTI?
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,873
From: South Jersey
I do wish GM would put some effort into some good names for these new cars.
It is a shame that they squandered so many great names with mediocre cars, to the extent that the can't be used anymore.
It is a shame that they squandered so many great names with mediocre cars, to the extent that the can't be used anymore.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,198
From: NYC
He is thinking about 30 years of GTI heritage (1976 to present).
From this:
To present:
And Aveo has NO sporty heritage whatsoever. Period.
From this:
To present:
And Aveo has NO sporty heritage whatsoever. Period.
You're doing one of this sites infamous apples to oranges comparisons.
You're comparing a model to a brand. GM/Chevy has what, 100 years of heritage? When it comes to performance and sportiness, Chevy is leaps and bounds above VW and has been in the game a lot longer. VW performance on this continent is almost non-existant and their best offering is laughable at best if you're throwing them in the performance category. Granted some of the higher ups at GM have made some mistakes over the years with vehicle choices, but they aren't really in any kind of position to lay another egg. If someone was going to enter that market as a newcomer and succeed, you've got to think it would be GM.
You're comparing a model to a brand. GM/Chevy has what, 100 years of heritage? When it comes to performance and sportiness, Chevy is leaps and bounds above VW and has been in the game a lot longer. VW performance on this continent is almost non-existant and their best offering is laughable at best if you're throwing them in the performance category. Granted some of the higher ups at GM have made some mistakes over the years with vehicle choices, but they aren't really in any kind of position to lay another egg. If someone was going to enter that market as a newcomer and succeed, you've got to think it would be GM.
Last edited by scyzoryk; Dec 25, 2009 at 02:10 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,154
From: All around
To future.
VW also gives the enthusiasts support. GM would need a performance... division... shall we say, to move behind their customers in the same way.
What'd we call such a group? Maybe GM Performance Division?
VW also gives the enthusiasts support. GM would need a performance... division... shall we say, to move behind their customers in the same way.
What'd we call such a group? Maybe GM Performance Division?
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
You are comparing the Aveo name to the GTi model.
If you want to compare the Aveo name, maybe compare it to the name "Rabbit" (which is what VW calls that car nowadays).
So tell me, exactly what sporty heritage does the "Rabbit" name have?
If you want to compare the models of these cars, I think the "RS" name measures up to the "GTi" name pretty well if your only guideline is how it sounds in your ears, and nothing else. However, the market place isn't that shallow.
But just the same, this whole debate is completely moot, and actually pretty stupid, and here's why.
If the car is actually very good, then it will make it's own history and make people form their own opinion about the brand. Only if something is poisoned and dragged through the mud (think Pinto, Vega, or Aztek) does a car's name mean much to the public. There are very few vehicles that rank on a pedastal like Camaro, Thunderbird, Mustang, Corvette, or even Prius. Vehicles where certain things are expected.
I'd bet 99% of the general public doesn't even know what an "Aveo" is, let alone point one out in a picture when placed next to a Kia, Hyundai, or even Mitsubishi models of similar size. That means there is still alot of potential in forming opinion (good or bad). And again, it's the product that will do the forming.
The Impala name was nothing more than a family hauler, yet all it took was a few years of the mid 90s Impala SS to turn what was expected with the Impala name on it's very head.
Don't get me started on how the "SS" name changed in peoples minds from what it meant in the 60s and 70s to what it means today.
Last edited by guionM; Dec 25, 2009 at 05:39 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Not a chance.
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,198
From: NYC
If you want to be that specific... GTI is a NAME not a model. Look it up.
S.
S.
You also are doing exactly what bkpliskin pointed out. Comparing apples to oranges.
You are comparing the Aveo name to the GTi model.
If you want to compare the Aveo name, maybe compare it to the name "Rabbit" (which is what VW calls that car nowadays).
So tell me, exactly what sporty heritage does the "Rabbit" name have?
If you want to compare the models of these cars, I think the "RS" name measures up to the "GTi" name pretty well if your only guideline is how it sounds in your ears, and nothing else. However, the market place isn't that shallow.
But just the same, this whole debate is completely moot, and actually pretty stupid, and here's why.
If the car is actually very good, then it will make it's own history and make people form their own opinion about the brand. Only if something is poisoned and dragged through the mud (think Pinto, Vega, or Aztek) does a car's name mean much to the public. There are very few vehicles that rank on a pedastal like Camaro, Thunderbird, Mustang, Corvette, or even Prius. Vehicles where certain things are expected.
I'd bet 99% of the general public doesn't even know what an "Aveo" is, let alone point one out in a picture when placed next to a Kia, Hyundai, or even Mitsubishi models of similar size. That means there is still alot of potential in forming opinion (good or bad). And again, it's the product that will do the forming.
The Impala name was nothing more than a family hauler, yet all it took was a few years of the mid 90s Impala SS to turn what was expected with the Impala name on it's very head.
Don't get me started on how the "SS" name changed in peoples minds from what it meant in the 60s and 70s to what it means today.
You are comparing the Aveo name to the GTi model.
If you want to compare the Aveo name, maybe compare it to the name "Rabbit" (which is what VW calls that car nowadays).
So tell me, exactly what sporty heritage does the "Rabbit" name have?
If you want to compare the models of these cars, I think the "RS" name measures up to the "GTi" name pretty well if your only guideline is how it sounds in your ears, and nothing else. However, the market place isn't that shallow.
But just the same, this whole debate is completely moot, and actually pretty stupid, and here's why.
If the car is actually very good, then it will make it's own history and make people form their own opinion about the brand. Only if something is poisoned and dragged through the mud (think Pinto, Vega, or Aztek) does a car's name mean much to the public. There are very few vehicles that rank on a pedastal like Camaro, Thunderbird, Mustang, Corvette, or even Prius. Vehicles where certain things are expected.
I'd bet 99% of the general public doesn't even know what an "Aveo" is, let alone point one out in a picture when placed next to a Kia, Hyundai, or even Mitsubishi models of similar size. That means there is still alot of potential in forming opinion (good or bad). And again, it's the product that will do the forming.
The Impala name was nothing more than a family hauler, yet all it took was a few years of the mid 90s Impala SS to turn what was expected with the Impala name on it's very head.
Don't get me started on how the "SS" name changed in peoples minds from what it meant in the 60s and 70s to what it means today.
Last edited by scyzoryk; Dec 25, 2009 at 08:03 PM.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,738
From: Charleston, SC
I mean to say GTI, rabbit, golf etc... followings. Those names have hot hatch followings.
The aveo doesn't, I think it may shake off its crap image, but its going to take it a bit. Look at the SRT-4, performed WONDERFULLY... but what did everyone say? Its still a neon...
Has hyundai completely changed there quality and turned themselves around? Yep, but guess what many, including my self say. I'd never own one of those piles of ****. From a past experience with them.
The aveo doesn't, I think it may shake off its crap image, but its going to take it a bit. Look at the SRT-4, performed WONDERFULLY... but what did everyone say? Its still a neon...
Has hyundai completely changed there quality and turned themselves around? Yep, but guess what many, including my self say. I'd never own one of those piles of ****. From a past experience with them.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,738
From: Charleston, SC
Not a chance.
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
the Fiesta is going to have some 1.6L ecoboost I think. Maybe not Fir but it's in the same price bracket. I don't see Chevys 2nd lowest car jumping alot in price to compete head on with a GTI
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,018
I came back to this thread because something was bothering me.
Drawing a comparison between a GTI and an Aveo is absolutely worthless because I think a GTI is large enough that an Aveo could probably fit in the trunk.
IMHO, if you want to do an apples:apples comparison, you need to be looking at the VW Polo, which competes in the b-class hot and hatchy segment in Europe:
Drawing a comparison between a GTI and an Aveo is absolutely worthless because I think a GTI is large enough that an Aveo could probably fit in the trunk.
IMHO, if you want to do an apples:apples comparison, you need to be looking at the VW Polo, which competes in the b-class hot and hatchy segment in Europe:
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,958
From: Kansas City, MO
Actually, they are back to "Golf" again for 2010. So, I would say VW thinks that the name has little to no heritage, LOL. They are almost as bad as GM renaming stuff.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Not a chance.
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
1. Won't be priced anywhere near to a Golf GTI
2. Cruze is above it in the lineup.
3. Will be 60hp short.
Basing that on a 1.4L Turbo of 140hp being the RS engine.
Now saying that--it could still be a very fun little hatch--just not in the VWs price range ect.
The Aveo goes up against cars like the Honda Fit and new Ford Fiesta (you can get a 6 speed DSG in that too)
I came back to this thread because something was bothering me.
Drawing a comparison between a GTI and an Aveo is absolutely worthless because I think a GTI is large enough that an Aveo could probably fit in the trunk.
IMHO, if you want to do an apples:apples comparison, you need to be looking at the VW Polo, which competes in the b-class hot and hatchy segment in Europe:
Drawing a comparison between a GTI and an Aveo is absolutely worthless because I think a GTI is large enough that an Aveo could probably fit in the trunk.
IMHO, if you want to do an apples:apples comparison, you need to be looking at the VW Polo, which competes in the b-class hot and hatchy segment in Europe:
Even with that though, I agree that no way will an Aveo be priced like Golf or will the RS be priced like a GTI.
The GTI comparison is probably more aspirational than anything else. Nevertheless, I hope that GM does get itself a really fun to drive little hatch. It needs one badly. Previously I've made some comparisons with the OPC Corsa and it's 1.6 turbo.
I'd be happy with some or all of that....
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,600
From: Pewee Valley, KY
Why is the Aveo moving up into the C segment? Is it going to stradle the B-C lines or will it be a low end C segment entry while the Cruze rides on the high side?
Cars should stop moving up in size. Why can't a compact stay a compact, a midsize a midsize? I just don't get it.
Charlie, do you know if the Aveo is going to be Corsa based or rebadged Daewoo (both should be Gamma based)?
Cars should stop moving up in size. Why can't a compact stay a compact, a midsize a midsize? I just don't get it.
Charlie, do you know if the Aveo is going to be Corsa based or rebadged Daewoo (both should be Gamma based)?