1. Insurance- A Camaro is amazingly expensive to insure, even in V6 form.

2. Looks-Chrysler styling was boring. Wheels looked small, car looks like it rode 4 inches too high, factory ground effects looked okay (in the eyes of a younger buyer), but were very cheap looking for the $2,000 price. The firebird has styling that was more attractive to the younger crowd, but cost significantly more. The V6 exhaust (which seem to be important with young buyers) looked like crap and the Z28's is nice but boring. I am not even gonna start on the interior.....Lets just say that when a Corrolla has a nicer interior than a car that can approach $38K, you have an issue.


3. Cost- Younger buyers generally don’t buy a newer car until at least 22 when they are out of college..even then it is generally an inexpensive one. A base V6 Camaro cost $19,000 at the time of extermination. That is with roll up windows and a hardtop. Add the 1SB option group (power windows, ABS ect.) and T-tops (younger buyers don’t give a rats *** if they leak, they are cool!) and you have a $23,000 car, that isn’t even a V8. For that price there are much nicer cars out there than a V6 Camaro (Celica, RSX, even a V6 accord or Camry).


Any other issues someone can add?

 

It wasn't in The Fast & The Furious?

 

I know of a few people that turned away from the F-bodies because the hood was too long, i.e. they couldn't really park it right and when they took it for a test drive were very nervous getting out of the lot....

Personally I don't mind the camaro being that my truck is a Suburban but I could see how many would see this as a main point.

my .02

 

I don't believe that many young people really buy new cars, at least new cars over $20k. Seems most will buy used or go the route of cheaper Korean cars if buying new. I don't have any numbers to support this, but it certainly seems like the issue of reaching young buyers (under 25) is overblown.

The problem for the Fbody is that it wasn't appealing enough to people in their mid-late 20s and 30s. There are a myriad of reasons these buyers have decided against an f-body, but I don't think insurance really comes into the picture. Maybe it affects young buyers purchasing used f-bodies, but most people looking for a sports/sporty car will not be surprised by the insurance and will be less affected as premiums will have declined by reaching age 25.

The reasons people passed on the fbody have been hashed out enough times (quality, price, practicality, dated styling and architetcure, lame duck status, etc.) and a 5th gen Camaro will need to address these issues to be successful beyond the first couple years of introduction.

 

1. I don't believe insurence was as much a factor as some may believe. Camaro was cheaper to insure than Integras & Mustangs.

2. I agree about looks, but in a different way. Camaro was comparatively L-A-R-G-E. Especially next to what they were actually buying.

3. Young buyers for whatever reason don't seem to be into V8s in new cars till they are well into their 20s (again, there are exceptions, but as a rule it seems they don't).

 

I don't think so..maybe a V6 Camaro, but whenever I called for a quote on a Z28 it was almost as much as a new car payment. On thing to note though is it is cheaper to ensure a used car, so I think alot of younger people who want a Z28 bought a used one instead.

Import prices have gone up, but it depends on what catagory it's in. For instance a Mecury Cougar is not considered a sports car by my insurence company, but a 2 door Grand Am GT is.




Large is not an issue...most younger buyers like size when they can afford it. They stick with small cars because it is generally what they can afford. Car and Drive did somethinga few issues back on what kids liked, and of teh new cars the usual assortment of 4 bangers won, but by and far they said they would rather have an old muscle car (Chevelle, Camaro, ect...which were pretty big) than any of the new cars they had listed. Why? Because muscle cars are cool. Kids my age, 18-24,will give up alot of function and convience to be cool...The problem was the 4th gen had become stale, overpriced, and not really cool. The Z28 became generally unattainable to younger buyers because it cost so much. The V6 was expensive too....and all you ever hear is "How come you didn't get the V8?" Make it cool and they will come.[/quote][/b]

New cars with V8's are expensive. Every car nut kid I went to school with wanted a F-Body or Mustang....WS6 TA's were very hot. The problem is they are so expensive you often have to settle for something used, or a new econobox.

New Camaro Z28=$450 payment+$250 month insurence
New Celica=$300-$350 payment and ~$150 month insurence.

Even the Mustang GT is more attainable than a Z28.

You can't say...."Well imports are cool and young people want 4 bangers". That's not true. They may talk smack about how great they are, but thats because it's all they can afford. Give them a chance at a cool car with a V8 and a nice price and they will jump on it.

 

Grand Am GT a sports car, but a Cougar isn't?
I'm not doubting you, but I still want to check that out. That seems pretty incredible!

Mustang GT more attainable than a Z28?
With Mustang GTs costing as much as Z28s, and the insureance on them slightly higher, I find it pretty hard to believe. Sorry.

As far as young people (perhaps they are different out here than back east) with Z28s out here running from $8-20K for good used ones, and same year imports running the same, if price is an issue with them, they surely don't show it.

Speaking only for California (which seems to have the highest consentration of f-bodies anywhere), F-bodies just as GM demographics suggest, seem to appeal to 30+somthings, while young drivers are all over Asian imports, even with higher purchase prices & higher insurence.

 

Ahem, I believe Michigan is the #1 F-body state with Florida and Texas close. I understand your points but here in Michigan 4th Gens are pretty commonplace.

 

Actually Texas is first..California second...I remember Scott saying...it may be backwards.

I was refering to new. A comparably equiped Mustang GT seemed to always run $3K less than a Camaro Z28.

And again...if the Camaro was affordable to younger buyers they would buy it. All the kids I knew in school wanted them, but couldn't afford them.

Again it may be different in Cali... I know San Deigo is the birth place of the import craze, so maybe they are more hard core than here.

But not a 4th gen was in F&F 2. Why?..because old Camaro's are cool. Make a new one just as cool and it will have no problem selling.

 

My insurance company doesn't consider my 2 door Grand Am to be a sports car.

 

weird............. I agree with some of what formula79 said for once.

He does have a point though. My generation is stuck on what’s "cool". That’s probably why my age demographic is so hard to nail down and market things to. We are very "hit and miss".

However I believe the V6 Camaro should be the entry level car. Make it "cool" by adding things like ground effects, cool styled duel exhaust a targa top and a decent amount of power (maybe 250?). (yes I said targa top, I think t-tops should be left in the past. The current Vette looks so good with the targa.) But most importantly give it to us at a Chevy price. If you can bring it in around $20,000 in 2007 dollars then it will be a hit.

Leave the Z28's and Super Sports to the older buyers.

This is the way it should be if someone bought brand new from GM their entire life.

Age 16, - Cobalt
Age 20, - V6 Camaro
Age 24-30, - Z28 or SS
Age 31-36, Grand Prix and a Truck (for the family)
Age 40-50, Vette or Caddy
Any Age higher, Caddy

Something like that anyway.

 

It probably Texas because its the best state ever.

 

Well Nationwide was not on my side

 

Thats what I am getting at. Less younger buyers may buy cars than any age group, but if you get just 3-4 out of every 10 in this age group, and keep them happy, GM would have a very nice future.

 

And then there would be the matter of getting approval for a car loan of that amount. Most 18-20 yr olds do not have the most established credit in the world, let alone good enough credit to get a nice interest rate. Then you bring into the equation co-signers (will Mommy sign off on her 18-yr old son's $25k Z28???) and a higher interest rates mean higher monthly car payments.

The thing is, a car like this (new) is not a smart purchase decision in this age bracket. Even for a Z28 a couple years old the insurance will be as much as car payments. At this age any new car's insurace will be a bit expensive, so I'm not saying go buy a new Integra either. Factor in other expenses for these buyers (such as college) and the fact they will be working entry level jobs (or maybe just part time even) and it means not a lot of money for the new V8 sports car--or any new car in this price range.

Again, I don't see the implied loss of young buyers as a factor in the demise of the Fbody. Maintaining a nice image for the Chevroet brand would be important, so that when these buyers can afford the Z28, they will still be interested. Then again, if the older one (which they could afford) didn't live up to expectations or they knew someone else who got nothing but headaches from theirs, that buyer may have already dismissed a Camaro purchase.