Of course, younger buyers need to be able to afford the purchase price and insurance on a Camaro to actually purchase one.

The thing that is lacking, however is the desire to own one.

When I was younger....every 16-25 year old considering a new car had Camaro or Firebird on their shopping list.

Is that true today? Probably not. 20-25 year ago these cars were NOT considered cheap, and insurance was still an issue with young drivers.....but everyone still considered them during purchase time.

It's all about the product. Build the right one and they will come.

 

I just got off the phone with Mercury Insurance. Here's the senario:

39 year old male driver; Received his license at 16; drives 10 miles to work; drives 15,000 miles per year (yea, right! ); minimum liability; full comprehensive; using my work zip code as the garaged address (Long Beach, CA.), here's the insurence rates on 3 cars, all hardtops:

1997 Ford Mustang GT: $897.90 for 6 months
1997 Ford Mustang V6: 750.00
1997 Camaro Z28: $800.00

Yet at Allstate, same senario:
Mustang GT: $670
Mustang V6: ALSO $670
Camaro Z28: $875(!)

So it seems that where you get your insurence determines what you pay. At Mercury (and 21st century where I'm at) Mustangs cost more to insure than Z28s! Yet at Allstate, Z28s cost more, but it [i]doesn't matter if you get the Mustang GT or the V6, you're going to pay the same!

Now that I've wasted about half an hour of work, I'd better get humping.

 

Progressive quoted me at $925 for 6 mo. on my 2000 SS and I'm 24 years old. and I have a perfect driving record and have had my licence for 8 years now.

There is no way I could afford a 2004 Camaro SS if they still made them.

 

Maybe for a 39 year old male. However for a 16 year old male from CSAA it was quite different.

When I checked last September for my stepson:
1995 Mustang GT: $1400
1995 Mustang V6: $2300
1995 Z/28: $2100
1969 Camaro: $1500

(I checked on the 1969 Camaro as it was his second choice.) At the time I was paying about $40 less for his 1991 Jeep Cherokee, so I lost the argument on the Mustang being too expensive.

BTW, it was almost a year ago, so I might be rounding numbers a little.

 

Have to jump in on this thread, being a guy who has owned nothing but Camaro's since I bought my first car. When I first had enough money to buy my own car at 17, it was an 84 Z28 (not the HO). Insurance every 6 months with multicar discount, multiline discount, and good student discount (this is with State Farm), was around $850. If I hadn't had any discounts, it would have been about $1100. I'm 22 now, so when I was 17 it was 1997.

Then some girl wrecked by 84, so I saved up my money for a down payment current 94 Z28 w/ 6 speed (which, in State Farm is more expensive than the auto to insure, which they could not tell me why, either). Saved up $7000, used that as a down payment when I turned 18 in 99, got my Z28 for $11,700, so I ended up with a $4700 loan (which was how I planned it, so I could get credit). Parents cosigned, got an 8.5% rate (remember, this was 99, not today), which was VERY good compared to the regular used car rate of the time at 12.5%. So my car payment for the next 3 years was $150 a month. Insurance was $1069 for every 6 months, or $177 a month.

There was no way I would have been able to afford a brand new 99 Camaro Z28 or SS, because that $1069 price for a 94 would have been almost $2000 for insurance every 6 months, and that's with all my discounts! Not to mention that my $7000 down payment would have left me with a $15000 loan, or something along the lines of $400 to $500 a month. And I made about $1000 every 2 weeks thanks to my awesome job in high school. But when you figure gas, partying, and all the other things you waste money on in high school, not to mention saving money to pay for college, there is no way I could have afforded a brand new Camaro, let alone most high schoolers who usually make maybe $500 to $700 a month (which was what most of my friends made).

I agree with what everyone else has said, especially about kids wanting these cars. Everyone wanted my car, there was only me and 1 other guys with a 4th gen Camaro Z28, and I'm one of the few kids that didn't have mommy and daddy buying my car for him. Just to show how much they wanted a Z28, when senior prom night came around, I had at least 50 people ask to borrow my car to take their dates to the prom with (everyone knew I was working and not going to the prom). Most of the idiot ricers today wish they could own a Z28, but they know they can't afford it. It's not the lack of want, it's the lack of money.

GM either needs to get the insurance rates lowered (because everyone I knew who drives same years Mustang GTs to same year Camaro Z28 pay MUCH less than we do), or find a way to get the price down even more on the V8. There aren't a lot of high school or college kids that can buy a brand new car unless its a Metro or a Korean car. When I'm done with college and GM hopefully comes out with the new Camaro in 07 or whatever, I'm sure I'll buy a new one. But by then, I just might be able to afford a C6 or C7.

 

Seems to be a combination of vehicle value and age as well as cylinders, over the past couple years i've research insurance many a time. I'm with allstate and they consistently beat out all the other companies i've checked out (state farm, geico, progressive, and a couple others).

'98 V-6 Firebird $1330/6 months
'94 Z-28 $1100/6 months

I turned 21 right before picking up that firebird. I checked the insurance on it before my birthday - over $1800/6 months (again, the other 4 or 5 companies i checked were all in the 1800-2000 range) - and a 96 Z-28 was virtually the same price. Coverage and deductibles were exactly the same on my firebird and camaro (no tickets or accidents). I don't think they care whether it's a v-6 or v-8 much and i asked about this. A kid driving a sports car is a kid driving a sports car and 90% of them are going to drive like idiots. I recently went to liability only coverage by the way and now i pay less than $100/month for my T/A and Z-28 WOOHOO!

 

yea, i think if i get another camaro, i'll have to do that one
that would seriously help out

 

I am what you consider a younger buyer. The main problem was the image fast and the furious put out initially, and the relative sexiness of the import scene. Here, Hot Import Daze comes through, theres movies showing off the cars, and shows like 'high rev tuners'. Also, until recently, the f-bodies in our price range were mainly third gens, which didn't have the dominant 'kicked your butt' import motors that the 4th's had. Now I see alot more 4th's being driven by younger people like myself because the price is right, and the performance is outstanding. The styling isn't appealing to everyone, usually mustangs are perfered from that stand point, but its still pretty cool. I think the trend is coming back towards domestics now the newer cars are affordable. I pay $274.33 a month for my Z, and that's not hard for a gearhead to make parttime job. It just requires less trips to the movies ect.

 

Might I also add, when I graduated from college in 1989, I wanted to buy a new car. I looked at the Camaro Z/28 (or IROC, I can't remember), but according to my insurance company the insurance would have been $5000 a year, even though I was 24 and had a pretty clean record. (1 ticket and 1 accident in 8 years.)

I asked them when was the next price break on a new Camaro and they told me when I hit 30. I bought an 89 Nissan 240SX instead.

Two months shy of my 30th birthday, I bought the 95 Z/28 I have today.

I guess my point is that since there was virtually not much difference in price of the vehicles, had I been able to afford the insurance on a Camaro Z/28 at 24, I would have bought one. Instead, I bought the sportiest car I could afford insurance on at the time. (Mustang was never even considered.)

That's not to say my kid wanted my 95 Z/28 either. I offered it to him as an option, and I also offered buying him a 3rd gen Camaro. However, he said he didn't like the styling on either. However he does freely admit that my Z/28 is pretty fast for a factory stock vehicle. For some reason I don't think the 4th gen hit home with as many teenagers as the previous versions did. Although my oldest kid, who isn't really a "car-guy" does like my Z/28.

Kids are strange.

 

You guys are completely missing my point here.

I'm not trying to point out how low or high my own insurence is, I am trying to point out:

1. Horespower doesn't matter. As you see above, having a V6 Mustang over a V8, depending on the company simply does not mean insurence will be lower. jg95Z28 actually has an instance where getting the lower powered V6 Mustang is more expensive to insure than the V8 powered Mustang GT.

2. Camaro's insurence rate simply isn't a valid reason for young people not buying them. Both cars cost roughly the same out the showroom (including Mustang's GT and Camaro's Z28) so price simply isn't the issue here.

3. Doom Master, you bring up a point that I think you yourself completely missed. On one hand, you point out how many kids wanted to borrow your car, but you also point out that you were one of the very few kids who bought & payed for your own car. I would never buy my kid a new Camaro Z28 as one of his 1st cars, and I think that raises the point: If a parent is buying, or is co-signing, for their kid's 1st car, are they going to buy them one of the quickest cars on the street that can go up to 160 mph at age 18 with minimal experience? If you are a responsible parent, then hell no!!

There within is perhaps the real reason why the young buyers don't buy new Z28s. First, young buyers don't buy brand new cars. Second, if they do it's the parents who buy them or co-sign for them. Third, any responsible parent isn't going to buy an inexperienced young child of theirs a brand new land missle. Those young people who do buy their own, buy what they can afford, and that normally isn't a $25,000 car.

Z28s are (or rather, were) reasonably priced, extremely fast cars with high, but not extravagant insurence rates. Parents (quite reasonably) aren't co-signing these cars to high schoolers, and they are (or rather, were) priced where once you were on your own, and could afford them, they were easy to buy.

The question we all should be asking is do we want nearly 400 horsepower cars priced at a point where 18 year olds can easily get ahold of them without their parents help, and are we willing to pay the consequenses in higher insurance rates, and is GM willing to deal with potential lawsuits from parents (don't laugh, they sue musicians if their kid commits suicide).

Bottom line, Z28s are (or rather, were) available at a good price (they started at $23,000 for chrissake!! If that's too expensive for you, suck an egg and go pout in a corner! ), and the insurence generally is cheaper than a Mustang V6.

There are plenty of good used Z28s out there. If you really want one, by a used one.

 

hey i can tell you guys what some of the people at school think...well, according to everyone mustangs are the ****...EVERYONE and their mother has them..literally, there are only a few camaros, we have an 80's 2 z28's and 1 v6 <---mine, and also on the top of the list, one kid drives a 2002 SS..but everywhere you look, there are mustangs, i hate to say it, but they needed to make z28's look better..they could have left the v6 alone, but look what you get on a gt mustang..a scoop on the hood, nice rims, etc, in other words you can tell that this mustang is a v6, and this is a v8, make sense? most of my friends think i should grow a mullet, so that i can fit into my camaro...insurance was very big for me, i pay 160 a month an a 95 v6 camaro..and thats just liability, ofcourse i got an $800 alarm system.. in other words kids would either get a mustang, or a ricer...they are just much "cooler" and more affordable...

 

Claims, injury risks, theft risk, your region, body style, also all affect insurance. The V6/V8 difference has been minimal in my experience. My insurance went up the time before last because there was an increase in false claims in my state (I have Progressive). Being a new car, as other have mentioned, is just as big a factor. You may find that a brand new Cavalier convertible would be as high as a '97 Z28.

My insurance was never too overwhelming for my Firebird. Keep in mind you can play with the deductables to lower your premium and most seem to offer a pay-in-full discount. If you have a shoddy driving record and are thinking of switching, most of the big name places will check back five years whereas others (including Progressive) will only check three.

Ultimately, it is the irresponsible drivers who get in the big accidents that drive up insurance premiums for everyone. While some of us may be safe and responsible drivers of these cars, a good portion still play into the stereotypes that leave insurance companies inclined to charge a hefty premium.

 

Just wanted to point out there was no Z/28 in 89 or 90 only the IROCZ. j/k

 

Kids want whatever the latest trend is. My 17 year-old takes a month vacation in northern Minnesota every summer and stays with relatives. Classic musclecars must be a dime a dozen up there, because every year he comes back wanting a different classic musclecar.

Last summer (when he was 16) he came back wanting a 69 Camaro. This was right after his mother and I had dumped $4K into his 91 Jeep Cherokee lifting it, putting on nice rims & tires and a kickass stereo system. Being a Camaro junkie and loving first gens the most, I was upset and spending the money on fixing up the Jeep, but happy he wanted a classic Camaro. Within a month when we couldn't find an affordable 69 Camaro (Chevrolet had just killed the model-line and prices were soaring), he changed his mind and said he would accept a newer Mustang instead. I was first adament against it, and even offered to let him drive/have my 95 Z/28 until we could find him the "right" 69 Camaro. However his mother and his dad (this is my stepson btw) agreed to buy him a Mustang, even though I recommend against it because it was over priced. (Now I can't sell the damn thing.)

Six months later he wanted a 5 spd Mustang.... but still said someday I'd like a 69 Camaro. We came across a too-good-to-be-true deal on a supercharged 5spd 96 GT and the rest is history.

When he left for Minnesota last month, I told my wife, "watch, he'll come home wanting a different musclecar, just wait." She was anxious for me to get some minor repairs done to his 96 GT and I was saying "what's the point?" I knew he'd change his mind.

He's flying home tonight. Last night he calls me from Minnesota to tell me about this badass GTO "just like one in XXX that he can get for only $15k". I wasn't surprised, and made sure I rubbed it in with my wife.

I was a 17 year-old musclecar fan once, so I know how they think... obviously better than my wife and her ex do. This kid will never be happy with what he has; and since we live in an area where rich parents frequently buy their spoiled kids numbers-matching restored 69 SS Camaros... I'm going to have a lot of fighting on my hands for years to come.

So, what I'm getting at is... whatever cars you see in music videos, and movies like XXX and Fast & Furious II... that is what kids are going to want. Actually how fast the car goes isn't important... its how good you look and how loud you are that is most important.

The fact that Chevrolet hadn't marketed the Camaro over the past 8-10 years... to this age group or anyone at-all... is the reason why kids aren't into them. If it aint popular or stylish to own a "new" Camaro.... they wont' want one.

 

My point is, there isn't alot of kids driving new Mustangs or Camaros and insurence is a huge reason. I can afford a $400 car payment with a side job, but I can't afford a $400 car payment+$250 a month insurence. In the end most kids end up with a used Camaro or Mustang or a new econobox.

Quote:

Bottom line, Z28s are (or rather, were) available at a good price (they started at $23,000 for chrissake!! If that's too expensive for you, suck an egg and go pout in a corner! ), and the insurence generally is cheaper than a Mustang V6.

Again they may start at $23,000 (The price was more like $24,000 in 2002), but that is very base with roll up windows and a hardtop. No teenager wants that, especially when a Mustang GT offers much more in the appearence department for that price. One thing the import scene has taught us is the younger buyers care more about appearence that going fast. That being said a Z28 with 1SB, Traction Control, T-tops (who cares if they leak, they are cool!) , and a Monsoon stereo (stereo is very important to the younger people), and your looking at a $26,000+ car.

What I am getting at is most buyers my age would rather buy a 220-250HP car with a good stereo, ground effects ect. than a 320HP super base Z28 for the same price. By all means have the 320HP car, but if you wanna sell to younger buyers you need something more than what a base $23,000 4th Gen Z28 was or even a Base V6..It needs to be cool and have style, and if you have the money be able to go really fast. A base Corolla should not come with more standard features than a V6 or a base Z28. You all may not wanna make these changes because of the Camaro's heritage, but if you don't make a car that appeals to the younger people it will die with all the purists.

Quote:

There are plenty of good used Z28s out there. If you really want one, by a used one.

I am sure the Chevy ads for teh 5th gen will say that.