Why younger buyers didn't buy Camaros
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,724
From: Hebron, KY
Originally posted by formula79
Thats what I am getting at. Less younger buyers may buy cars than any age group, but if you get just 3-4 out of every 10 in this age group, and keep them happy, GM would have a very nice future.
Thats what I am getting at. Less younger buyers may buy cars than any age group, but if you get just 3-4 out of every 10 in this age group, and keep them happy, GM would have a very nice future.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by formula79
Actually Texas is first..California second...I remember Scott saying...it may be backwards...
...But not a 4th gen was in F&F 2. Why?..because old Camaro's are cool. Make a new one just as cool and it will have no problem selling.
Actually Texas is first..California second...I remember Scott saying...it may be backwards...
...But not a 4th gen was in F&F 2. Why?..because old Camaro's are cool. Make a new one just as cool and it will have no problem selling.
The coolness factor is more of a design & "peer" issue more than cost. I agree completely there, a good "cool" design will attract alot more younger people...... and alot higher insurence rates for those of us over 25
.Trivia: California (at least till it's recent financial meltdown) was the 5th largest economy on the planet, behind the rest of the United States combined, Japan, Germany, and the UK.
Yep, our little state's economy is bigger than France, Canada, China(!), Italy, and Spain.... oh, and it's bigger than Florida & Texas combined
.http://www.empire.state.ny.us/nysdc/...c/gspranks.pdf
(...slow news day, and I had the data handy
)
Last edited by guionM; Aug 18, 2003 at 01:15 PM.
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Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Nashville, TN
Considering Calif has 34million+ citizens and therefore about 1 out of every 8 Americans is a Californian, I am not suprised in the least that it would have the most or almost the most F-bodies.
What would be most interesting is to see the F-bodies PER capita... With the population CA and TX have its a no brainer that there would be more total Fbodies there than elsewhere, but to look at the ratio of Fbodies to population would tell you where they are the most popular. I'd love to see such an analysis or at least get the raw data and do my own analysis.
For example CA should have, if demand is even across regions, about 1 out of every 8 Fbodies made. I'm curious to see what, if any, trends there are regionally for these cars.
What would be most interesting is to see the F-bodies PER capita... With the population CA and TX have its a no brainer that there would be more total Fbodies there than elsewhere, but to look at the ratio of Fbodies to population would tell you where they are the most popular. I'd love to see such an analysis or at least get the raw data and do my own analysis.
For example CA should have, if demand is even across regions, about 1 out of every 8 Fbodies made. I'm curious to see what, if any, trends there are regionally for these cars.
Last edited by Chris 96 WS6; Aug 18, 2003 at 01:19 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Originally posted by jrp4uc
And then there would be the matter of getting approval for a car loan of that amount. Most 18-20 yr olds do not have the most established credit in the world, let alone good enough credit to get a nice interest rate. Then you bring into the equation co-signers (will Mommy sign off on her 18-yr old son's $25k Z28???) and a higher interest rates mean higher monthly car payments.
The thing is, a car like this (new) is not a smart purchase decision in this age bracket. Even for a Z28 a couple years old the insurance will be as much as car payments. At this age any new car's insurace will be a bit expensive, so I'm not saying go buy a new Integra either. Factor in other expenses for these buyers (such as college) and the fact they will be working entry level jobs (or maybe just part time even) and it means not a lot of money for the new V8 sports car--or any new car in this price range.
Again, I don't see the implied loss of young buyers as a factor in the demise of the Fbody. Maintaining a nice image for the Chevroet brand would be important, so that when these buyers can afford the Z28, they will still be interested. Then again, if the older one (which they could afford) didn't live up to expectations or they knew someone else who got nothing but headaches from theirs, that buyer may have already dismissed a Camaro purchase.
And then there would be the matter of getting approval for a car loan of that amount. Most 18-20 yr olds do not have the most established credit in the world, let alone good enough credit to get a nice interest rate. Then you bring into the equation co-signers (will Mommy sign off on her 18-yr old son's $25k Z28???) and a higher interest rates mean higher monthly car payments.
The thing is, a car like this (new) is not a smart purchase decision in this age bracket. Even for a Z28 a couple years old the insurance will be as much as car payments. At this age any new car's insurace will be a bit expensive, so I'm not saying go buy a new Integra either. Factor in other expenses for these buyers (such as college) and the fact they will be working entry level jobs (or maybe just part time even) and it means not a lot of money for the new V8 sports car--or any new car in this price range.
Again, I don't see the implied loss of young buyers as a factor in the demise of the Fbody. Maintaining a nice image for the Chevroet brand would be important, so that when these buyers can afford the Z28, they will still be interested. Then again, if the older one (which they could afford) didn't live up to expectations or they knew someone else who got nothing but headaches from theirs, that buyer may have already dismissed a Camaro purchase.
A lot of parents cosign on cars....
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Originally posted by guionM
Mustang GT more attainable than a Z28?
With Mustang GTs costing as much as Z28s, and the insureance on them slightly higher, I find it pretty hard to believe. Sorry.
Mustang GT more attainable than a Z28?
With Mustang GTs costing as much as Z28s, and the insureance on them slightly higher, I find it pretty hard to believe. Sorry.
Don't ask why, because my insurance carrier couldn't figure it out either. All I know is I tried in vain to get my kid to buy anything other than a Mustang. He wanted a V8 American RWD ponycar and the Mustang GT was the only one that made sense from an insurance affordability standpoint.
It must be some sort of Ford conspiracy.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Branden brought up many good points.
In high school and college, F-body's rule. If you have a new F-bod you have the coolest car, and everyone knows it. It even gets more attention than the new Mustangs. Theres no doubt that the younger crowd WILL buy USED Camaros.
I wanted to get an '02 Z28 during my senior year of highschool, I could afford the car, but the insurance would have had me struggling to make payments. I was making about $800/month and the car payment combined w/ insurance would have been around $800/month. Way too much for a person in highschool or college. Hardly affordable anymore.
Fawking insurance is the biggest scam ever created. When you get a new car loan, you can't just put it on minimum coverage, it HAS to be full. I think the only way that Chevy can appeal another Camaro to the youngins is by (which has been brought up before) making a 4 banger version. When I looked up insurance on a V6 the payments per month were around $300 (Newness of a vehicle affects insurance more than performance) along w/ a $300 monthly payment, which comes in around $600/month. Still a bit touchy for a highschool kid, but DOABLE for a college person if their living at home. If their on campus or in an apartment, FUHGEDDABOUDDIT! (mind you, these insurance figures were from when I was 18 and 19 (2 years to 1 year ago) and with a perfect driving history and with a 5 year loan.
If they could make a 4 banger version, considering the insurance premium is linear, that would bring in insurance payments around $200/month with a $225-$275/month car payment for a total of about $450/month. WOW! Thats almost the full cost of a V8 Camaro alone!
So don't try to figure out why young people aren't buying brand new V8 cars. The car is affordable (to people coming out of college) but the insurance on top of it is just not doable for people under 22 with normal lives.
In high school and college, F-body's rule. If you have a new F-bod you have the coolest car, and everyone knows it. It even gets more attention than the new Mustangs. Theres no doubt that the younger crowd WILL buy USED Camaros.
I wanted to get an '02 Z28 during my senior year of highschool, I could afford the car, but the insurance would have had me struggling to make payments. I was making about $800/month and the car payment combined w/ insurance would have been around $800/month. Way too much for a person in highschool or college. Hardly affordable anymore.
Fawking insurance is the biggest scam ever created. When you get a new car loan, you can't just put it on minimum coverage, it HAS to be full. I think the only way that Chevy can appeal another Camaro to the youngins is by (which has been brought up before) making a 4 banger version. When I looked up insurance on a V6 the payments per month were around $300 (Newness of a vehicle affects insurance more than performance) along w/ a $300 monthly payment, which comes in around $600/month. Still a bit touchy for a highschool kid, but DOABLE for a college person if their living at home. If their on campus or in an apartment, FUHGEDDABOUDDIT! (mind you, these insurance figures were from when I was 18 and 19 (2 years to 1 year ago) and with a perfect driving history and with a 5 year loan.
If they could make a 4 banger version, considering the insurance premium is linear, that would bring in insurance payments around $200/month with a $225-$275/month car payment for a total of about $450/month. WOW! Thats almost the full cost of a V8 Camaro alone!
So don't try to figure out why young people aren't buying brand new V8 cars. The car is affordable (to people coming out of college) but the insurance on top of it is just not doable for people under 22 with normal lives.
Last edited by Meccadeth; Aug 18, 2003 at 02:56 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Meccadeth
Branden brought up many good points.
In high school and college, F-body's rule. If you have a new F-bod you have the coolest car, and everyone knows it. It even gets more attention than the new Mustangs. Theres no doubt that the younger crowd WILL buy USED Camaros.
I wanted to get an '02 Z28 during my senior year of highschool, I could afford the car, but the insurance would have had me struggling to make payments. I was making about $800/month and the car payment combined w/ insurance would have been around $800/month. Way too much for a person in highschool or college. Hardly affordable anymore.
Fawking insurance is the biggest scam ever created. When you get a new car loan, you can't just put it on minimum coverage, it HAS to be full. I think the only way that Chevy can appeal another Camaro to the youngins is by (which has been brought up before) making a 4 banger version. When I looked up insurance on a V6 the payments per month were around $300/month (Newness of a vehicle affects insurance more than performance) along w/ a $300 monthly payment, which comes in around $600/month. Still a bit touchy for a highschool kid, but DOABLE for a college person if their living at home. If their on campus or in an apartment, FUHGEDDABOUDDIT! (mind you, these insurance figures were from when I was 18 and 19 (2 years to 1 year ago) and with a perfect driving history and with a 5 year loan.
If they could make a 4 banger version, considering the insurance premium is linear, that would bring in insurance payments around $200/month with a $225-$275/month car payment for a total of about $450/month. WOW! Thats almost the full cost of a full V8 Camaro alone!
So don't try to figure out why young people aren't buying brand new V8 cars. The car is affordable (to people coming out of college) but the insurance on top of it is just not doable for people under 22 with normal lives.
Branden brought up many good points.
In high school and college, F-body's rule. If you have a new F-bod you have the coolest car, and everyone knows it. It even gets more attention than the new Mustangs. Theres no doubt that the younger crowd WILL buy USED Camaros.
I wanted to get an '02 Z28 during my senior year of highschool, I could afford the car, but the insurance would have had me struggling to make payments. I was making about $800/month and the car payment combined w/ insurance would have been around $800/month. Way too much for a person in highschool or college. Hardly affordable anymore.
Fawking insurance is the biggest scam ever created. When you get a new car loan, you can't just put it on minimum coverage, it HAS to be full. I think the only way that Chevy can appeal another Camaro to the youngins is by (which has been brought up before) making a 4 banger version. When I looked up insurance on a V6 the payments per month were around $300/month (Newness of a vehicle affects insurance more than performance) along w/ a $300 monthly payment, which comes in around $600/month. Still a bit touchy for a highschool kid, but DOABLE for a college person if their living at home. If their on campus or in an apartment, FUHGEDDABOUDDIT! (mind you, these insurance figures were from when I was 18 and 19 (2 years to 1 year ago) and with a perfect driving history and with a 5 year loan.
If they could make a 4 banger version, considering the insurance premium is linear, that would bring in insurance payments around $200/month with a $225-$275/month car payment for a total of about $450/month. WOW! Thats almost the full cost of a full V8 Camaro alone!
So don't try to figure out why young people aren't buying brand new V8 cars. The car is affordable (to people coming out of college) but the insurance on top of it is just not doable for people under 22 with normal lives.
Dropping a 4-banger in the cra doesn't really mean better insurance rates.
There is a lot more that goes into the formula that the number of cylinders.
In fact, I'd question the notion that the number of cylinders even has an impact at all on insurance prices.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Originally posted by Darth Xed
Dropping a 4-banger in the cra doesn't really mean better insurance rates.
There is a lot more that goes into the formula that the number of cylinders.
In fact, I'd question the notion that the number of cylinders even has an impact at all on insurance prices.
Dropping a 4-banger in the cra doesn't really mean better insurance rates.
There is a lot more that goes into the formula that the number of cylinders.
In fact, I'd question the notion that the number of cylinders even has an impact at all on insurance prices.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Meccadeth
Y I'm just going with the popular thought that performance affects insurance rates.
Y I'm just going with the popular thought that performance affects insurance rates.
Now, there I will agree... I am sure performance does fit the equation.
Purely number of cylinders.... probably not, but again I have no facts to back me up, so it's just my opinion.
The biggest factor, I'm relatively sure, though, is how much $$ the insurance companies are putting out to repair/replace the cars vs others.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 54
From: Westen North Carolina
Lets talk price of car, have herd it suggested that a new v8 camaro is pushing 30k hope not 20-25 would be far more attainable yet still high. But you can buy a brand new silverado with v8 4.8 litre 270hp 2wd for 15.5k. www.carsdirect.com price one out. So why cant Gm come up with nice v8 rwd car 15-18k with decent saftey features and sell sell sell.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,769
From: cinci
gotta throw my .02 in
i think younger buyers (16-24) would buy camaros if they knew they could afford them, and if in fact they could afford them
for instance, my friend was dead set on getting some type of honda (prelude, accord, civic, whatever)
when i told him he could get a camaro for the kind of money he had, he jumped at the chance
even though he didnt get a v8, he still got a 97 v6 with a lot of options on it- i think it might be fully loaded, not sure
now he is hooked on camaros
next he is going to get a z28 in a few years and sell his v6
just proving that, if they can afford it and they know they can, theyre most likely gonna go with that over some 4 banger econobox- especially if its a z28 that runs 14's or 13's stock
i think younger buyers (16-24) would buy camaros if they knew they could afford them, and if in fact they could afford them
for instance, my friend was dead set on getting some type of honda (prelude, accord, civic, whatever)
when i told him he could get a camaro for the kind of money he had, he jumped at the chance
even though he didnt get a v8, he still got a 97 v6 with a lot of options on it- i think it might be fully loaded, not sure
now he is hooked on camaros
next he is going to get a z28 in a few years and sell his v6
just proving that, if they can afford it and they know they can, theyre most likely gonna go with that over some 4 banger econobox- especially if its a z28 that runs 14's or 13's stock
