So you'd rather go to a football game with 1 person rather than 3? Or same for taking a camping trip? Or boating, or ATV-ing?

I'm sure there is some market for 2 seat utes, but in the end, i think the overwhelming majority of truck sales being extended/crew cabs really speaks volumes about how most people use their vehicle with cargo carrying capacity. The existence of vehicles like the 2 seat lightning speaks to the opposite case.

 

Actually yes, I'm not big on crowds- especially in my vehicle. And I don't give a rat's *** how "most people" do things, as long as I can do things my way as well. The lightning is of no interest to me, that sort of "performance truck" is something I'd never buy. Thinking of the Ute in regular pickup terms doesn't fly - it is something different (which is why I like it so much). Besides, a crew-cab, and even an AWD version was built in the VZ series and could be built on the VE as well (for those that need an audience to ride with them).

 

A VaginaNox?.

 

I am not saying that there are not people who will not buy the UTE. As this thread shows...there are a few people with a "hard on" for one (to use Guy's term). That being said, after those people buy their new UTE's who is gonna buy one. To my generation, the El Camino is the rusty beater granpa used to drive to the liquor store.

People need to put the hard on's away and read the tea leaves. People don't buy two seat trucks anymore (less than 5% of sales). Also, two seat cars are the smallest segnment out there to. While GM will sell 5K of these a year...if they could get it under $20K...I really think their are cooler, potentially more profitable things that they could bring from Holdens toybox like an AWD wagon, and a premium, high performance personal luxury coupe.

IMO Pontiac needs something like the GTO way more than a UTE.

BTW, the Equinox was my wifes vehicle..it has since been replaced by an 07 Avalanche...which is honestly one of the best vehicles I have ever owned. Drives much smaller than it is, SUV comfortable inside, hauls everything I could ever need, and gets decent gas milage for the size.

 

Branden, time to update your sig then

I would rather see an AWD L92 wagon than a Ute here also.

 

And the truth of your position stands out. You are upset that the UTE is coming when you want a GTO.

It was a joke

 

"My term????!

Check out what the fellow in post #76 of this thread, below the 6th quote, 5th line said: " Unless you have some 20 year old hard on for an El Camino....

Hint: Wassn't me.


Perhaps in your area that may be the case. Certainly isn't that way out here as most here will attest.

Rusty beaters?! That describes every car from the 1980s.

Again, you're almost trying too hard to find reasons not to bring the Ute. Just about everything you bring up makes a convincing case against producing a whole slew of enthusiasts cars.

Again, let me counter your points.

1. The Ute IS already going into production!
a) There's no development costs to speak of... it's already done.
b) There's no diversion of funds.... it's already done.
c) You aren't going to save a single penny by not bringing it over here. The vehicle's already done.

For the record, it cost $100milionAUS to develop the Holden Ute. That's roughly $83million in US dollars. That's also in 2007 dollars. To compare, it took $250million (that's 1997 dollars, mind you... and that's US dollars) to redesign the nose on the 1998 Camaro. In today's money, that's probally about $325-350million just to redo the nose. That $83mil is paid (and profit made) through just Aussie sales.

2. The Ute DOESN'T need to sell in pickup truck numbers to be successful!
a) Ute's development cost is covered by it's sales in Australia, as per business plan.
b) All federalization was covered by the high volume G8.
c) The Ute can sell at Z06 Corvette numbers (6200) and still be a a success. The thing ISN'T a Silverado. If it sells just in the numbers it sells there (which by our standards is small.... see Z06 Corvette, but a little less) the thing's a success.

3. So what if 2 seat cars are the smallest segment out there?!
a) Should Mazda never have made the Miata?
b) Should GM never have made the Solstice or Sky?
c) Corvette's selling at numbers that would certainly doom the next Camaro and make Mustang the worst failure of any Mustang made. Yet, it's a success because it makes money... ditto Miata. Solstice & Sky seem like they're making money for GM as well.

4. Sure GM could put money in more profitable things!
a) But in that case, there would be no Camaro.
b) There would be no Corvette.
c) GM would still be making nothing but trucks, crossovers, & Espilon sedans.

5. Where in heavens did you come up with that sub-$20,000 number?
a) You can't even buy a decent Mini or even a that toy car, the Mazda Miata for that price.
b) Price alone doesn't sell cars. Look at the base $22K 2002 Camaro Z28 that even you passed up to get a loaded V6 model, which was a far nicer car. You're not alone. PT Cruisers far outsold cheaper Neons, Beetles outsold cheaper Golfs, WS6s far outstripped the sales of cheaper Formula Firebirds. It's getting something unique that is far morte important than price.
c) Judging just by the intrest on this site and on your very own website, there seems to be ample numbers of people who want the Ute. I'm sure as long as it comes in under $30K, it's not going to turn anyone away from the showroom.

Sure, maybe 5% of pickup buyers buy standard cabs.
Also...

* 6% of 2002 Camaros came with the 5 speed manual.
* 4% of 2002 Camaros came in Orange.
* 2002 Camaro SS with automatics made up 4.9% of total production.
* Manual SS made up just 6.6%
* About 1.5% were B4C police models.
* 7% came with the Northeast emissions package (California was 12.5%).
* Only 1 of every 19 Mustangs sold in 2004 were Mach 1s.
* It's safe to say less than 5% of Cadillac CTSs sold are CTSvs.
* Mazda Miatas make up roughly 1% of all the cars Mazda sells globally.
* Ditto Corvette.
* Camaro will represent under 2% of GM's sales... in the US market alone!


Percentages mean nothing without the rest of the story. In this case, the rest of the story is that GM is taking an existing vehicle that's going in production, and is going to make a few extra bucks...some of which is going to fund some of the future vehicles you might want... making some extras and selling them over here.

I would imagine it makes good business sense to market your products to as wide a market as possible, including making new ones when the investment is marginal and any sold adds to the coffer.

I really can't see why you are so dead set against it.

Perhaps you're concerned that once you buy your G8, these notably lighter versions might edge you out on a strip, perhaps??

 

Guy, wait a minute!

You're going to compare the Ute to two-seat convertibles, one of which is a halo car?

While I'll agree that the Ute doesn't have to sell Silverado like numbers, it certainly will need to outsell SSR numbers, otherwise it will be a failure.

Which brings up a good point. The SSR failed, IMHO, purely because of its price and the fact that it wasn't practical for hauling anything other than luggage, groceries and golf clubs. Yes the Ute does more than this, however it can't touch the styling of the SSR and it isn't a convertible. If it sells for anything near the MSRP of the SSR, it will have a similar fate.

 

QFMFT

 

Please define failure.

If you mean sold hundreds of thousands of cars, then yes, the SSR was and the Ute will be failures in the US.

If you mean that they sell enough to bring people into the showroom and/or be profitable, then the SSR was and the Ute will be a success.

 

1. You bet your bippy I'm going to drag halo cars into this. Halo cars have to be cost viable. The point raised is that the Ute will fail. The point raise is that no one will buy them. A production percentage was thrown out. You bet I'm going to use it.

2. Comparing the SSR to the Ute just because it has a bed is like comparing the Corvette to the Camaro just because it's a V8. The SSR was a specially made design exercise that was put into production using specialized parts, items, materials, in limited quanities at the now defunct General Motors Craft Center. The Holden Ute is a knockoff of a high volume sedan, made on the same assembly line as no fewer than 2 other cars (and later 3) using the same parts, many of the same stampings, all of the same subsystems, and engineered as a working vehicle that can actually do (and is expected to do) light hauling. It also isn't going to live in garages with the expectation of increased values due to rareity the way SSRs do.

3. Chevrolet sold a total of 8,107 convertible folding hardtop SSRs that had a MSRP of $40,000 in 2005. The Holden Ute cost less to develop, needed no new assembly line, uses existing tooling and components, and is ALREADY all but guaranteed to turn a profit without exports. IF anything, this is one of those rare instances that if it becomes too successful in the US, GM is going to have to do more financial homework than if it doesn't. Holden would have crunch the numbers to study the feasibility of adding a 3rd shift to Elizebeth City. Honestly, if anyone thinks sales in the US are going to be less than in Australia (which has a total population roughly equal the size of the greater Los Angeles area) is just enguaging in negative daydreaming.

4. One point you bring out is dead on. The SSR didn't sell more because of pricing. But that's like saying the Z06 Corvette doesn't sell more because of pricing. The puropse of the SSR wasn't to sell in large quanities. It was a project done to create a blueprint for future skunkwerk projects by GM (kicked off by Rick Wagoner himself, if I'm not mistaken), as a way to get a vehicle made while finding innovative ways to overcome issues. In short, the whole thing was a test bed. Ute is a regular production vehicle, and therefore isn't on the same level any more than a $22,000 Pontiac Solstice is a $73,000 (let alone a $43,000) Corvette.

For the record, Corvette outsells the Solstice and the Sky, yet both the Sky and Solstice are considered successes.

Something to consider.

 

When all is said and done, considering the weak US dollar, even if you brought the Ute to these shores without changing one thing on it, I just don't see it stickering for less than $30k. Unless I'm mistaken, there are several things that would have to be changed, just to meet US safety standards. At $25k or less, it would do much better than it would north of $30k.

 

The only new things being done for the US are the bumpers, and they were redesigned for the G8, so the engineering cost will be $0. The Ute starts around AU$20k, IIRC, so starting at $25k US shouldn't be that big of a problem.

 

Agreed, if that is all they cost when they get here. What concerns me is I seem to recall the same price point was initially set for the GTO, and we all know where that ended up.

 

Like I said...this will be a fun discussion to have 3 years from now. So Guy...I take it that you will be buying a new Ute instead of a Camaro?