I think the most important problems GM is having with the UAW right now is not the healthcare costs, but more of the problems with not being able to downsize and close plants without have to still pay the employees. GM cannot resturcture with the current contracts.. This is killing GM. GM needs to be downsizing right now according to their current market share..

But they can't, and I think they will just use their cash reserves to try and ride it out until 2007 when the contracts are up. It is a gamble, especially if their new truck series does not do well, along wth other new brands coming out until then. The union has GM by the ***** right now and Gm can't do much at this moment to streamline and reorganize.. Almost impossible to due if they have to keep paying a workforce even if they are not working.

 

You have an odd way of answering questions. lol

I not talking about management or supervisors. I work with people every day that got to their jobs by climbing a ladder that started at the bottom. I understand that, and can appreciate the level of knowledge that can't really be taught.

I started working for my Dad by sweeping floors. Then graduated to simple work. Now I recieve and process all the orders and produce shipping tickets. I couldnt train anyone to do my job in 5 days, but I could hire someone tomorrow to sweep the floor or run the slitter. See what I mean?

 

What "real world" are you on? Show me anyone that is paying $1,250 per month for medical coverage, and I'll show you someone that needs to find a new job!

 

There are plenty of people who are paying $10-15K/year for family coverage.

If you're fortunate enough to have an employer that picks up the entire tab (like General Motors) consider yourself lucky.

 

It would take a LOT longer than 5 days to train a new person. Try more like 6 months to a year. And then that new person STILL wouldn't have the depth of knowledge of the job as the veteran he replaced. It takes years to learn the stuff a 20 or 30 year employee knows.

And really, who makes 60K a year? Without overtime, the only people making that kind of money or greater are the 20-30 year skilled trades. Yes, a non-skilled tradesman or younger person could make that kind of money, but he'd have to work his a** off working every bit of overtime that was thrown his way, including nights, weekends, and holidays. Most new hires start around 37 to 40K a year.

And I was laid off for almost 6 months in 2003. Ya know what I got from the company? 200 bucks a week. That certainly is NOT 95% of my pay. You people need to stop believing everything the media says and start asking your own questions instead of bashing.

And free health care? What's that? We have to pay out of our pocket every week. The coverage we have is junk. It's just catostrophic coverage. So unless you are dying, it's not covered. We pay deductibles just like every body else. Again, check your facts with an actual employee instead of believing the media.

What it comes down to is this. Why should a guy like Bill Ford make 23 or 28 million dollars (or whatever the amount is) a year while the people who got him that money go hungry? All the union is asking for is equality. Why should we bear the brunt of stupid management decisions while they get off scott free with all the money. We should roll over while they cut pay and benefits, move jobs overseas, and take home bigger paychecks. What is wrong with you people that you would want this to happen? Do you not care about the workers in this country?

And ya want to hear something that'll ruffle your feathers? There's always the union guys who wouldn't mind ruining a company. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't. But they'd rather see the company go down in flames than prosper with "slave" labor. The mentality is, if we all can't have it good, then no one has it good. Especially the management.

 

I have one question:

Why have we somehow recently come to the conclusion that, "if a job doesn't require a degree, the work must be easy and shouldn't pay as much".???
Some of the hardest jobs on the Planet DON'T require degree's...like Alaskan Crab Fishermen for instance.
Also, seemingly simple jobs become very challenging....I used to install door skins onto door frames, involving: grabbing a door frame and door skin, clamping them in a jig, drilling 32 holes, and pop-riveting those 32 holes, then hanging them in part bins...in under 2 minutes!(w/o damaging the skin, or having a rivet installed incorrectly) Find someone who will do this for half the price, buzzer to buzzer, day after day, maintaining high quality...the repetition and stress can drive the average person insane!
Yep, those lazy ba$t@rds!!!


You know, there USED to be a time when it COULD be said,
" WHAT'S GOOD FOR GM, IS GOOD FOR AMERICA"...
..I hope someday it can be again...

 

First, labor costs are not the only difference between GM's and Toyota's cost structure. Things aren't that simple. But anyone can see that it is a factor.

Keep in mind that GM can't simply lock-out the UAW upon the expiration of the contract. Both parties must "bargain in good faith" under federal law. That puts a strict limit on the shenanigans that can be pulled by either party at the bargaining table, in the media, or during behind-the-back conversations.

I swear, some of you folks would know a lot more about this stuff if, say, they actually worked in or with a union. Seriously, I don't say this just to be snarky - it's OK to ask "why", but it's not as OK to make a bunch of wild-*** guesses. And no, I'm not a labor expert either.

 

No doubt whomever negotiated and signed the last two contracts on GMs part should be let go. It is as if the negotionations took place in the 1960s, and Honda and Toyota didnt exist. Those happy days are long gone, and competition is going to get even fiercer. Someone somewhere sometime has to educate the rank and file union brother that having a good paying job is better than working at Wendys, since Daewoo is not likely to take over the old GM plant once it closes. And close it will if nothing changes.

Note:A few of Toyotas plants are union, but most are not, since most Toyota employees feel the union is not needed to get them a fair wage and decent working conditions. It is up to each plant to decide, there is no pattern bargaining. Of couse, Toyota wisely puts plants in rural areas, and not on the South side of Chicago, or in South Bend Indiana, where screw the company sentiments are always high.

Question: Why should GM continue with pattern bargaining? It is no advantage to GM at all that I can see.

Does GM have enough cash to hold out till 2007? Prolly do if they screw the retirees, who seem to have no union protection.

 

It's called the small business world man.

I work as a Regional Sales Manager for an Industrial Hydraulic company. (small company = 40 million worldwide) - 8ppl in the US. (German owned) Anyhow...

My Insurance premium per month is $800.00. Company pays 50% of mine, no dependants. So I have to foot the bill 100% for my wife and 2 kids. Thats - $9,600.00 per year.

Right now it is the majority of small companies that are footing this bill so ppl still working for large corporations will never see this amount. Although, current trends point you could in the next couple of years so be prepared...

Anyhow with my base and commission I'm well on my way to 6 figures, so it doesn't directly put the hurt to me. But I have inside guys making 25k a year. Imagine if they get married and have kids and try to make it with those insurance premiums? Forget about it.

Although, we are going to Health Savings Account plans next year which is going to cut our premiums in half so that should help and the "inside" guys can get married! (Thank Bush even if you don't like him for the gasp of relief in the small business community).

But to any person who says ~10k health care premiums is not in the "real world". You sir need to wake up...

 

And this is something to complain about? A new hire? 37K a year? I work in the IT industry, and "new" hires start at 22 - 25K, and that's CDN. On top of it, if you go to bed "hungry" with $37K salary, perhaps it's time to go on a diet.

I sympathize with your entire post, except the above.

Equality is USSR, N. Korea, and somewhat China. A nationwide brotherhood where everybody's equal and most everybody's got squat. Everything is in perspective, and most everyone is looking at the guy higher up than lower down. No, I don't agree with the management that takes huge sums of money whereas regular employees take a pay cut, but at the same time UAW workers are not working the minimum wage at McDonald's - and those are the people who really can't afford month's rent and food.

So yes, sympathy is given, but not in the measures asked. And if everyone goes down, the company goes down, and all of the sudden there are thousands of UAW workers without work, compared to workers making $45 - 50K right now. For every union worker that complains, there are dozens waiting to take their place. Don't like it? You are not tied, and neither are you obligated to work for the company. I worked for a unionized company, and I worked for non-unionized companies.

 

Main Entry: par·a·site
Pronunciation: 'par-&-"sIt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin parasitus, from Greek parasitos, from para- + sitos grain, food
1 : a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2 : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
3 : something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return
- par·a·sit·ic /"par-&-'si-tik/ also par·a·sit·i·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective
- par·a·sit·i·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
synonyms PARASITE, SYCOPHANT, TOADY, LEECH, SPONGE mean a usually obsequious flatterer or self-seeker. PARASITE applies to one who clings to a person of wealth, power, or influence or is useless to society <a jet-setter with an entourage of parasites>. SYCOPHANT adds to this a strong suggestion of fawning, flattery, or adulation <a powerful prince surrounded by sycophants>. TOADY emphasizes the servility and snobbery of the self-seeker <cultivated leaders of society and became their toady>. LEECH stresses persistence in clinging to or bleeding another for one's own advantage <a leech living off his family and friends>. SPONGE stresses the parasitic laziness, dependence, and opportunism of the cadger <a shiftless sponge, always looking for a handout>.

of course to be fair that can happen at the top too and the poor company is caught in the middle, eventually leaving norhing for nobody

 

I think you will find a guy like Bill Ford makes what he makes because the board and stockholders agree with it.

I have respect for UAW folks and , for that matter, anyone that works hard for a living. Make no mistake about it.

We should all be aware that theres a big world out there where some folks will work for less because they think it's a pretty good deal.

Notions about "equality"? I don't want to get into some philosophical or political diatribe. Workers love profit sharing and don't like participating in loss sharing. Human nature. Even unions have inequalities, be it skilled trades or seniority, etc. Not everyone gets the "equal" deal.

In business you trade your time for money if you are an employee. Equality has nothing to do with it. You figure it's a fair deal and the "boss" figures it's a fair deal. When a worker doesn't think it's a fair deal they can ask for more or take a walk.. or make the best of a less than great situation.

Americans are not forced into buying "american" in any real way. I'm good with that. I do wish folks would think about any added value keeping your neighbor in a job might mean. People tend to buy price and that's another way of saying "value".

Lots of manufacturing is GONE in this country. Take televisions as but one small example.... they are still made but not HERE... It didn't happen because of anything short of financial logic.

Lots of working folks have little choice to now understand what working harder and leaner means in a real, real sense. Maybe unions will dodge the bullet.

I do chuckle when folks said the new economy would be "service" rather than manufacturing based.... Service based looks more and more like "want fries with that?"

The big 2 go down and lots of folks will likely get up close and personal with a "service based" economy and what it can mean.

Again...hats off to UAW folks. They should get paid what they are worth as we all should... Let's hope the buyers of what we offer agree with us.