To me GM just needed to focus on 3 core products. Grand Am (now G6), Grand Prix, and a RWD coupe..call it Trans Am, Firebird, GTO, whatever.

The GTO/Firebird could have been that brands halo car. A 2+2 RWD coupe with a V8, I don't care if it is GTO or the Firebird, just style it right and keep it competitive with the Mustang Cobra/Mach 1/GT and price it lower than a Corvette.

Grand Prix and Grand Am just needed a 2 door and 4 door version and each needed 3 engines. For the Grand Am it needed a 4cyl., V6, and Supercharged V6. Grand Prix needed a small economy V6, big performance V6, and V8 or S/C V6. Keep all vehicles fresh with major interior and exterior update every few years. No goofy styling, think G8 and BMW. Manuals should be offered on both cars and all 3 engines.

Everything else could be brought in or removed as market condition changed. It was smart to kill the Bonneville and probably smart to have a crossover SUV in the 2000's. Aztek should have looked like the Torrent though and offered the S/C 3800 though.

Solstice is a great product, but not a high volume product like the Grand Am and Grand Prix that bring in the big money. As much as I love that car, it isn't a priority like the 3 above cars mentioned.

 

I basically agree, with one addition:

I think Pontiac's ongoing focus should include something smaller than G6. Solstice is a decent fit, but I have something more like the Astra in mind. A practical, compact, fun-to-drive car with a decent chassis, a sporty suspension, and a decent amount of horsepower.

 

I still don't see a place for Pontiac. IMHO, there isn't anything that Pontiac brings to the table that couldn't be had as a Chevrolet.

 

but thats more to do with the lack of effort to make pontiacs unique.

 

It's easy to imagine these what-if scenarios, but the money had to come from somewhere. It's a zero-sum game. Any additional products going to Pontiac means that something else has to be cut.

So, do you give up on the Solstice and build a sporty sister to the Cobolt for Pontiac?

Do you cancel the Camaro project and put the money into building a class-competitive Pontiac midsize sedan instead?

(Part of me says that you do. GM has been too focused on halo cars while they were starving their mainstream product lines.)

 

That would depend on what you mean by success, and what your timeline was, and under most circumstances, I would say yes.

What ProudPony posted in that other thread about the GTO really got me thinking about Pontiac. This car did near everything, with the exception of being called GTO, right. Best interior out of Pontiac since I've been alive, great performance, and some nice features.

And while it made money, it was nowhere near the runaway success it could have been, even after the "issues" were addressed, being some hood scoops and the dealers partially coming to the light of day. Even when it became a real bargain, there was still a good supply on the lots. That car is give or take, what most of us describe when we describe what Pontiac should be, so what's the problem?

Then there is G6, big step up from it's predecessor, wrong name, but was extremely customizable, had a fresh look, was affordable and was/is a good volume car. But what happened? Some of that excitement, manual trans, big sunroof, and GP package, had low take rates, so they get dropped. Again, these are the options it seems like should keep that "Excitement" part from being a joke with no punchline, but again... it wasn't enough.

Now it might have helped had it not languished while Aura and Malibu were being worked on, or had they never came to exist... Might have been better if it got an appearance package that wasn't ugly as hell, but hardtop convertible for under 30k? I've seen maybe a dozen of those. What happened?

 

The goal would be to focus on those 3 products I mentioned. So yes, you wouldn't make the Solstice until you have the money to make a proper Grand Am and Grand Prix. Commodore/G8 makes a perfect Grand Prix, so there is a lot of money that could have been saved there. Instead of giving us the 2004 Grand Prix, they could have given us the last generation of Commodore.

G6 was a perfect Grand Am, it just needed to keep the Grand Am name and should have been available with a 4cyl. from day 1. Then in 2007 it should have received the interior upgrades it received for 2009.5. An all new Grand Am/G6 should be debuting on EPII for 2011 MY at the latest. LNF+6 speed manual would have made a nice GXP.

GTO was a good enough replacement for the Firebird. GM just should have had the foresight to get the car to the USA a little sooner and with the 2005 appearance upgrades in 2004 (dual tail pipes and hood). 2nd gen GTO should have been ready for 2008 and coupe have been just a more aggressive 2 door G8 with the LS3.

Everything else at Pontiac should have come 2nd to these 3 car lines.

Edit: Also no hubcaps should have been allowed on any Pontiac made after 2000

 

I thought that Pontiac was supposed to be a poor man's BMW. Today, it absolutely isn't, outside the G8 and Solstice.

If Pontiac was going to be a performance brand, it needed to stick to that. There was a time in which performance cars got you somewhere. I don't think we are there today. IMHO, the best way to fix Pontiac... make it Holden US.

The next thing you have to do, is not have Pontiac and Buick at the same dealerships. If you want to seller more expensive cars, Buick shouldn't have other cars for competition, you could put GMC with it. You could put GMC with Pontiac, but don't have it paired up with any other car brands either. The massive dealers that have all the brand under one roof will sell the more inexpensive car more often.

It would be hard to get there from here, especially since Pontiac is North America only.

 

Pontiac lost it's way long ago.

I'd rather see GM ax Pontiac and keep Saturn. Saturn's line-up is more relevant.

And I say this as a die-hard Pontiac fan. It just kills me to see what GM did to Pontiac.

 

You know what General Motors problem is?

Too many damned models! They need to trim the fat! That's where all their money is going! That and the damned UAW.

If they could just find a way to reduce their infrastructure, get the UAW monkey off their back, and come out with fewer models in each product line I.E. Buick, Chevy, GMC, Saturn, and the list goes on......(while reducing those model lines, they need to produce vehicles that people will want to buy), then I think GM would come out of this wings level and nose high.

Case in point:

Why in all that is holy, does GM feel they need to save both the Chevy Silverado, AND the GMC Sierra? THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME TRUCK?

Why does GM have to produce a Chevy Tahoe, AND GMC Yukon?

Why does GM have to produce a Chevy Trailblazer, AND GMC Envoy?

Why does GM have to produce a Saturn Sky, AND a Pontiac Solstice?

These are just a few examples, but other than the UAW debacle, I cannot come up with with a more collossal waste of money than the above!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's next?? A GMC Corvette? A Saturn Camaro??

C'mon GM, get your ****in **** together!

Trim some fat, drop some model lines, consolidate some others, turn Pontiac back into the performance brand that it used to be, and tell the UAW to **** off.

 

GM should be looking to do as much as possible with it's core brands. Pontiac did not succeed for one reason or another... and I still struggle to know why given Pontiac have had the most exciting lineup for a very, very long time.

What GM should have done with the G8 was to call it Impala. It just goes to show how futile it is to throw money at the hope of reviving a 'damaged brand'... and that quote comes from Lutz, himself.

Just my measly 2c.

 

You'll be glad to know that GM stopped making both of those last year.

Saab is in the process of being spun off and has declared bankruptcy. If the Swedish government doesn't save it, it could go into liquidation.

Saturn is dead after 2011.

Pontiac will die when the G8 and Solstice run their course - if not before.


How's that?

By the time we're done, a new company may take over the Chevy and Cadillac brand names, and everything else will be liquidated to fund legacy obligations.


All the simple solutions have been frittered away and now we're left with a steaming bag of crap.

 

What I'm talking about is something that should have been done years ago.

*edit* Trailblazer is listed as a 2009 model http://www.chevy.com

 

Which is what GM will be doing in 2013 when they replace the Impala that should be replaced in mid 2010. That extra 2.5 years is going to cost GM more than the bean counters think.

Most the things you mentioned made GM a lot of money. GMC is a cash cow and is GM's second best selling brand.

 

And that's all they need, for now. If/when they find their way out of the doldrums, they can think about establishing niche brands as the market conditions dictate... but that might not happen within some of our lifetimes.