Man that race wasn’t even close to fair. Don’t you drive a twin turbo stroked LS1 SS making like 800 hp?

 

Simple.
Design the car so that it DOESN'T appeal to hicks and mullet wearers.
And price it so they can't afford it.

 

"Simple.
Design the car so that it DOESN'T appeal to hicks and mullet wearers."

Hey, even they have good taste some times.


"And price it so they can't afford it."

They've already done that. It's called a Corvette. I guess the SSR qualifies too since they priced that thing into the stratosphere, neck and neck with a C5.

 

Funny that we have come to this. Way back when I had it in my mind that the Camaro should be re-invented as a world class Chevrolet 2+2, much as the Corvette is to the 2 seat sports car world. Much of it was driven by the image thing, but more so by some of the items that we really would like to see in the car making the cost fairly to significantly higher that what the 4th gen was. We got into IRS, and on star, and good quality leather, a world class chassis, ect...and it just couldn't be done for $2x,000. So I thought, well, if you can't do anything at the previous price point (assuming the results of the 4th gen were not acceptable) then you'll have to make it to where more people will buy it at the cheaper price (aka compromised, like the M*stang), or price it up and make a real car out of it, and risk pricing it out of your traditional market.

This was before the GTO came about, and I really think that the GTO has hit squarely on the head of the kind of car I was envisioning. But make no mistake, the GTO, even w/out the limit on imports, would never come close to the sales #'s of the 3rd gen, simply due to price, although it's engineering would be spectacular compared to the 4th gen.

I ran into the "stigma" when I ordered my 2k1 Formula, my father in law said it was a "kids car" (I was 30 at the time). I do remember favoring the Formulas more "elegant" lines over the Camaro's more bathtub shape, but that was more for personal preference. Most everyone who encountered it really liked it, and we have a little mini-club at work, as several co-workers got their own F-bodies. But it is possible that there was some backstabbing when I wasn't around.

But back to the new Camaro formula. Since I'm now the owner of a CTS, I am still amazed after 3 weeks at the performance of the chassis. WOW. It seems I heard this at some point, but if there were a 2 dr CTS, that would be a reaallll close match to the type of car the Camaro could be, but it would need changes of course. A totally original, and Camaro looking styling, inside and out for one. And of course, you would have to have a V8, and it would have to come in way under the CTSv's price. But really, this car isn't any more equiped than what a Camaro should be. Mine is pretty basic, no frivoulous stuff, has good leather, great stereo, 5 speed auto, lots of airbags, a TRUE dual exhaust system, and if you want to call it a "base" engine for a Camaro, it has the new 3.6l 255hp engine...which is quite adequate in every normal driving condition.

Finally, should they come up w/ such a car, they need to come up w/a MATURE ad campaign. No more kids listening to cars at the stop sign, no more cars eating other cars at the stoplight (but how cool was that one, huh?). If you want to branch out and hit the people that wouldn't normally consider a Camaro, you need to get away from the tire smoking, car eating identity, and show the happy couple cruising up highway 1 w/ the top down, on their way to a weekend in the wine country or something. Or the happy couple w/ 2 kids in the back heading to the beach, or whatever. Show that the car isn't just for laying rubber, but its a fun, family capable sports coupe, that you can enjoy driving, AND being seen in.

I don't know if this is right or not, it's just how I feel as a consumer on the backside of the 18-34 demographic.

 

Great post CLEAN.

I also find myself defending my love of Camaros. I am at the age and demographic ...where many of the people I associate with, are shocked that I have any interest in Camaros whatsoever. They consider them "kid's cars". They have no idea, on why I wouldn't just move on to BMW or Porsche....and forget about those silly, junky cars. No idea at all. I think that many, who know me, have learned to tolerate...what they consider to be, an eccentric automotive passion.

After years and years of this....I think I've got a pretty good handle on where Camaro is and where it must go.

Camaro doesn't have to be an expensive car....just a well done car.

Camaro must be available with lot's of power.....but that can't be it's only virtue.

Camaro must feel drum tight......if not like a BMW, at least like a Camry.

Camaro must have a nice interior....at least as nice as a VW Jetta.

Camaro's looks must turn heads......not just a handful of gearheads heads....but anyone who has a passing interest in things of beauty.

Camaro needs an image.....and not just with 19 year olds.

 

For every nice 4th gen, there are 3 ratty 2nd or 3rd gens running around in various states of repair (or disrepair) smoking, rusting, rattling, and barely making their way down the road...

Wanna know where the image comes from??? THERE. That, and the fact that MANY people owned them new, many years ago, when the quality was pure ****. Ever read a long term 1982 Car and Driver road test of an '82 Z28? Not hard to figure out where the image has come from over the years...

I love these cars. I LOVE them. It pains me to see so many crappy third gens (and even 4th gens for that matter now) running around. I see these cars as works of art. I wish people took better care of them. For every 4th gen Z that is on the road there are probably 2 that have been treed...its a shame.

Yes, they have a bad image. Car magazines note it. People on the street note it. People look at my car, and they say "nice ride," but many don't want to own one. They want an Eclipse, or an Accord, or something "cool." Camaros are not "cool." They appear to be left over from another era.

The right 5th gen can bring that all around again. These cars have been irrelvant to the marketplace for too damn long. No more gaudy "special" editions (hey, I'm the first to admit a white and orange car in the year 1997 didn't do much for the car's image, outside of those who love Camaros)...make them real, make them relevant, and make them kick ***...

 

I saw this in the lounge and thought this was so funny. It fits in this thread. http://www.natives.co.uk/features/mu...newmullett.jpg

 

and stop thinking that their chit don't stink...Ya know that mulletheads drive other cars to so how the 3rdgens got rounded up as the only car that they drive I don't know.I guess that there are ash0les in every walk of life.
I laugh when people who now have 4thgens,or think that the torch has been passed on, think that they have escaped the mullethead stigma and make fun of the 3rdgens.
4thgens will have their turn also once they get older and cheap too.Then the 5thgenners will be saying the same thing if a 6thgen comes out..For every nice 5th gen there are...

and hopefully by then the people are more mature and start being nice to one another.

 

This isn't a matter of being nice, not being nice, or whatever...its a stigma. A stigma that DOES AFFECT THE SALES OF THE CAR...

Weather people are grown up about it or not I think some here are in denial. And there's plenty of mullethead 4th genners too...so I don't know why the statement of picking only on third gens came up...

Come on guys, 'bout time some of you stopped living in denial here...

 

You can't fix a problem unless you admit that it exists.

 

I'll second that...

I love my Camaro as much as anyone, but even I can look at the car's image objectively. 3 years ago when I bought it, I walked outside the next day and said to myself "In the year 2000, I have bought a white car with orange stripes. What the HELL did I just do???"

I bought it because I wanted something special...I wanted an anniversary car. But even I admit the car has susbstantial redneck appeal...the only other 30th in my area is driven by a teeanger who's mom bought it for him. He has smoked the hell out of the inside, flies around like an idiot, and has trashed what WAS a nice car...

There is a major image problem here. People who bought birds from me in '02 admitted it too...but they loved the cars so much they didn't care.

But why should a person have to feel like they have to justify their purchase so often??? F bodies suffer from this in the REAL WORLD...

Just not here on www.camaroz28.com

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason E
This isn't a matter of being nice, not being nice, or whatever...its a stigma. A stigma that DOES AFFECT THE SALES OF THE CAR...I know it does but not that much.

Weather people are grown up about it or not I think some here are in denial. And there's plenty of mullethead 4th genners too...so I don't know why the statement of picking only on third gens came up...Sorry,I didn't meant it quite that way but everytime I am here at CamaroZ28.com(which was the 1st time hearing 3rdgens&mullets and btw I do get out often)someone puts 3rdgens and turdgens/mullets/trailor parks or whatever in the same sentence.There are other Camaro boards that do the same thing but not quite like this one.I do ignore them but you get tired of it.

Come on guys, 'bout time some of you stopped living in denial here...
I'm not denying the fact that this stigma hurts sales but putting better quality and styling aren't going to make those people go away.It may change a few of those peoples' minds but come on.Once a car gets older and more affordable those "mullets" will buy them. It's a never ending cycle.Then again people do get older and die so maybe they/the stigma will die off too. [QUOTE]

 

NO chit...

 

Good work screwing with my posts...not gonna bother responding because this is gonna become a p!ssing contest quick, I can see that. To say these people are nothing more than snobs isn't the point though. This is the buying public. They dictate sales, therefore. Sales is what the car business is all about. More of these "snobs" need to be converted for a 5th gen to be a success. And I can tell ya from a dealer standpoint, the only people who bit on the majority of my 35 Bird sales for '02 were, you guessed it, FORMER OR CURRENT OWNERS. No one traded in an Eclipse, a Civic, or a Celica for one. And thats the point...your die-hards are getting fewer and farther between...

I think people can see the overall point of this post anyways. I sold these cars for 3 years. I know quite a bit about their real and perceived value. But hey, believe what you want...sales numbers dictate the publics general opinion...and we all know how well that went

 

Wasn't screwing with your posts just answering them and like I said I'm NOT denying that it does affect sales...


but it's not as great as you say it does....blah blah blah