Thank you, Guy.

 

I'm against the Pep Boys style hood scoops. Maybe after the 2005's sell a year we can take a poll of their owners and see how many saw lack of ugly scoops as a deal breaker on the 2004.

 

I bet the GTO would sell ALOT more if there just wasn't just one package. Not everyone wants 18 inch wheels, hood scoops, and an ear deafening sound system standard.

When the GTO name was first brought up, I don't remember a person who wasn't excited. Even the promos on the pontiacs website made me consider buying one. But when I went to a dealer to test drove and saw it was marked up $4,000, I decided not.

 

Actually 18" wheels arent even offered , only 17's , the hood scoops are not standard either . They are a no-cost option . Not many cars in the GTO's class have less than it as far as content goes . Hell , theres more FWD monte carlo's I see with more options . Stock , its a very basic list of things that are expected in cars where the GTO "wants" to play . I think where it lacks at winning the non-gm enthusist or more upmarket crowd actually is not having a few more luxury options available. Things like 18" wheels , sunroof , sunroof , sunroof , Navagation are the norm nowadays . Just having those 3 things would attract alot more people that might have bought the Mercedes or ect. All 3 things are currently offered on the Monaro , so its not like the wheel would have to re-invented to make them avail on the GTO .

 

I think that really hurt it. I can see paying $30-$32k for the GTO, but not $40 like our local dealer was asking.

 

They're going for about 33k here. I still think an entry level LS1 GTO for '05 around 28-29K would really help out.

 

Dealer mark-ups might have hurt it, but I still believe that stying was the main issue - whether Guy agree's or not.

No offense, Guy.

 

I went to drive the GTO, but blah, the car is good and all. but...

1. It aint a GTO which I could really care less for.
2. For the money they want, it is still a pontiac, would rather buy a g35 for the same money and be able to sell it later. Watch, in 2 years, you will be able to pick up a 04 gto for 15k or less.

 

GTO is essentially a replacement for the Grand Prix GTP coupe, therefore doesn't need to appeal to the F-body crowd. Again, just because it has a V8, and rear drive doesn't mean it's a F-body replacement.

Also, with annual sales limited to 18,000 per year, and Mustang selling at a 200,000+ per year clip at the moment (150,000 last year), how can you say there's no room for a Firebird, GTO, Chevelle & Camaro. Besides, 2 were cheap relatively cramped, limited practicality (in moving more than 2 adults) hatchbacks while the other 2 were (will be?) roomy, midsized coupes with trunks.

 

None taken.

 

Lets see , they figure we are going to break the Monaro into the U.S. market *first*, as this car sets up the "grow on know you" period , its a coupe, not massive production nessecary, will cost us little to make and ship, and might take 2-3 years to fully build up to the whole direction GM is heading - "VE" and production in america and the plethora of vehicles in all shapes and sizes it will underpin, success of this is critcal.

So they will increase the HP / handling of the GM 281x platform each progressive year until '07 when the (still aussie engineered) but built in the U.S., with styling and dimentions "specific" to pony car and or any other car they chose, definately buick, and elco and AWD variants ,it can finally be dialed in without issue.

In the mean time , Free trade agreements could well see the Ute, coming in a chevy guise, i think the ute would have done better because its the type of body that "makes" an El-camino rather than the look, you couldn't say "but it doesn't look like an elco" because it does.

In the end it doesn't really matter how many they make at elizabeth from the GM2800 platform (they are pretty much at full anyway) , the main thing is to keep it going and gain momentum each year untill '07 when the VE can take its place, not insinuating that the current platform isn't great in its own right, but the VE will be special.

 

Exactly.. The GTO is a lux sport coupe.. If anything, it needs more options, like what others mentioned. It would "water it down" if they released a cheaper stripped version of it.

Then as Aeromarks metioned, there is some neg perception of the Pontiac name with some people.. Actually, I overall, across all GM brands, this is what worries the most.. Cause I can see improvements and such techinically done.. but it boils down the customer perception..

BTW, in 2005, did they fix that supposidlyl slow moving seat access to the back?

 

Like others have said, the GTO is a gap filler until the Camaro arrives. Although I think the GTO will stick around even when the Camaro comes. Pontiac is supposed to be a slightly higher quality, sportier Chevy. The Trans Am/Firebird was always the top of the line F-Bodies, but the differences were so mininal except in styling. The GTO makes more sense as it will remain in the low 30's range and have more premium options than the new Camaro will have. The camaro will be direct competition for the Mustang, priced in the mid 20's, and if you want something a step up you get a GTO. As much as I miss not having the Trans Am/Firebird, I think GM is taking the right strategy. They just need to bust their asses and get the Camaro in production. Hopefully these 4-5 years that we wait for the return of the Camaro is gonna be well worth it. They better deliver, b/c there are alot of expectations.

As for quality of the GTO, it is worlds above the Trans Am in everyway except styling, which hopefully will be remedied with the American built 07 model. And I bet the Camaro will return right along with the newly redesigned American built GTO in 2007. The waiting sucks but I am pumped their both gonna be incredible rides. By then all the buzz for the retro Mustang will have fizzled big time and GM will get right back in the Muscle Car game

 

Since your status on this forum is quite high and most of your posts are greeted with a lot of "Amen!"s and ""s, disagreeing with you is no small task. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think you are wrong.

I know many of you here would like to take the easy way out and discredit my opinion based merely on my age, but let's all realize one thing here: none of us here are arguing hard facts. We are merely taking selected facts, and only mentioning those that support our opinions.

Of course GTO advocates say that it is the dealers that killed the GTOs success. I will agree that they certainly did not help. However, I've read and heard countless opinions from older and *gasp* more mature people whose main problem with the GTO is the STYLING. Not that dealers marked up the prices. Not that the car was too expensive. Their issue was styling. Even my dad thought the car looked dull. I've heard these opinions over and over again, yet you like to sweep them under the rug.

Other people thought that the car has none of the heritage or cues from the original GTOs, and that was their problem with it. But I guess that is to be expected by calling the car GTO and not Monaro. That is GM's fault, not mine.

 

Word to the f'ing word. Even my pops used the word, "plain." Not that I wouldn't pick up the car for 22K or whatever people can get it for now. I'm not that against the styling.